She Is Unsure of Her Feelings

Today we're going to be talking about, she was unsure of her feelings. Okay. You know, Margaret, one of the things that I hear on a lot about in breakups is that somebody gets to a place where they're unsure about their feelings for you. They get to a place where sometimes they want to be with you. Sometimes they don't. And that's one of the things that's so confusing for us is people can want both at the same time. I want to be with you and I want space. Yeah. And why can't you fix that? And I want to be with you, but I don't want to be with you because there are times where you can be thinking and feeling the same thing I want to be with you, but I, I don't want to be with you.

Craig (01:31):

And, and then when you get all upset and you get dramatic and you start an argument, then they're like, Oh, I can't do it. And then they just kind of back away. Can't do this anymore. Yeah. They still lying. And then they back away. Yeah. So it's, it's normal for people to be conflicted about their feelings for you. Even people that have broken up with you, part of them is feeling like "I don't want to lose this person. I don't want to break up with this person". But the greater part of them says, "I want to, I need to. And that's why they do it," but they're conflicted. It's not like it's not simple.

Margaret (02:13):

Yeah. And people don't know what to do with feelings. And it's a good thing that eventually people have to make decisions because I think of a conversation I had recently, well, I don't know what my feelings will be in three months. Well, none of us know exactly how we're going to feel in three months because any number of things can happen, but eventually you have to make a decision. And I have seen people be totally immobilized for unreasonable periods of time, not knowing how they feel. And that's a very bad position to be in because you don't have any control over your life. How you feel that minute is controlling is controlling how you act that day. Yeah. But you've got to have a more

Margaret (03:00):

Framework of I'm unsure now. And it seems to me, the most prudent thing to do is to break up with you. And fortunately, if I break up with you, you're going to say, if you change, if you change your mind, call me back. That's a great, that's a great thing to say. But you can only let that go on for so long. And I hear people say, well, we'd been together for two or three years and he, or she couldn't make up their mind. And I will say, no grownups make decisions. It can't go on for huge lengths of time. You can give anybody a few months or to take some time to figure out how they feel and what they want. But love is not necessarily just a feeling. It's also a choice.

Craig (03:45):

I think one of the hard things for us is that when somebody tells us that they're unsure about how they feel about us, it automatically sets off our anxiety

Margaret (03:57):

And it feels like a rejection, no matter how you think about it.

Craig (04:00):

And, and then we just feel like, Oh my God, we were dying inside. And we want to do everything to stop this from happening. And we overreact. And then all of a sudden it just spirals out of control. Right? So I got an email coaching that I did that I wanted to share with you guys. This is from a couple that is in their early twenties and they dated just for under a year. Now they originally dated back when they were teenagers. She's they said many people, including their brother urged her to break up with me. She later got into a five year relationship with a controlling guy and her mother threw her out because she was against the relationship. But they got along after the breakup. So this girl seems to have a mother that is very controlling herself. Can't imagine why she was drawn to a guy that was controlling for five years.

Margaret (05:01):

Drawn to the familiar. Do you think?

Craig (05:03):

He says, In January, we got back together. We kissed at the first and hooked up on the second date, but I had to hide all the time because her mother, I never met, lives in the apartment above hers. So this is just a recipe for disaster.

Margaret (05:26):

Well, and sometimes the inability to make a decision is based on being controlled by some outside force. Like your mother.

Craig (05:35):

Yeah. Laura told her about us and she wasn't happy as it would split the family. Now, can you imagine a woman in her mid twenties tells her mother that she's dating somebody and somehow that splits the family.

Margaret (05:52):

Like she can't ever date anybody. Cause we have to keep the family together. I mean, come on this poor. Yeah.

Craig (05:58):

He said, but nevertheless, we enjoyed the relationship even though her mom manipulated things multiple times since we got together, Laura said multiple times, she was unsure of her feelings. But every time we continued, because she said we fit perfectly. After the third time in June, she told her best friends about us, but she didn't want it to be public. So none of her coworkers knew. She thought it would be bad for her career. So I don't know what her career is, but you know, obviously this girl's interest level, isn't super high. She's telling a couple of friends, but kind of keeping it on the down-low. Doesn't want to tell coworkers. She's been told by her mother that it's a terrible thing to have a relationship. So she's not sure about things. And I suspect he probably was coming on kind of strong and maybe even putting pressure on her.

Craig (07:07):

Like you should tell your mom about us or things like that. Sure. Uthey're in their early twenties. She's closer to her early twenties. He's in the mid twenties, but Laura warned me that maybe she will never really love me. It's quite a warning right there. And how does she know that apparently love can grow. It's not instant. Something inside of her told her to warn this guy. It was something outside of her. It was her mother. Yeah. Her father gave her the tip to go on vacation with me to get clear about us. So we did, it was great. A month later she wanted to talk. She said she loved me, but as a friend and she was afraid to lose her mom. So now this girl is feeling like she has to choose between her boyfriend and her family.

Craig (08:06):

But she has to separate from her family to have a life and they're not going to make it easy for her. Oh dear. Which is why I wanted to do this email because I knew you would see what was going on with mom here. And also she felt she'd neglected her sports, her education and her career that she wanted to do on the side. Can't you hear mother now "and you're not doing any of the things you're supposed to do". Yeah. She let me choose. If we break up or take a break. So we took a month break. Of course he was going to take the break. Of course still being together to assess our feelings. We got back together for a month after I assured her she'll get the time she needed to do other things. Talk to her mom, which she never did.

Craig (08:58):

She even said, she's now sure about us, but also felt so avoidant. I was upset and told her that she has to show that she's serious with us. Then she bought us festival tickets for us and fantasize about it. She even introduced me to her father. So it sounds like things were getting a little better between them. And she was kind of fantasizing that maybe this could go someplace, but we only met like five short times. She even drove to her best friends for two weekends. When I got upset again, she suddenly broke up with me the next day. You could see it coming. Yeah, because he started to try and get anxious and controlling, saying her feelings are simply not enough to talk to her mother or for a relationship,

Margaret (09:56):

Two entirely different things.

Craig (09:59):

Well, I think her attraction level dropped when he started to get upset that she wasn't giving him enough time. And so she's like, you know what? I'm not that crazy about him right now. It's not worth telling my mom and all the hassle that it might lead to a big fight. And my mom might disown me and all the things

Margaret (10:20):

But I can see why he was getting impatient. He wanted to say, make a decision.

Craig (10:23):

Yeah. I said, I couldn't believe it. As I still felt so much love coming from her the last few months. But I said, I respect her decision and wanted to work things out. She said, I should not wait for her to come back. We met up a week later to talk again for several hours, but she just repeated what she said before. Some days after I brought her stuff, she seemed happy to see me, but I made many mistakes afterwards and wrote not one but three handwritten letters and made a public, but respectful rap song about us. Oh, he's cute. Well, cute is not going to help the situation, Margaret. He thought, well, if one handwritten letter is good,

Margaret (11:20):

How about three, three? And the rap song? That's the grand gesture. The rap song. Yeah.

Craig (11:30):

She was rightfully upset about it. So I took it offline again. She said she missed me and doubted her decision. But the song changed how she viewed me. That grand gesture. It always sounds like a good idea until you do it. Oh man. They make the situation so much worse. I then wrote the second letter and a short WhatsApp text that she should remove and block me everywhere, if she wouldn't miss me or found someone new. After some texting back and forth, she said she didn't find someone else, but she will delete me everywhere to close this chapter. So we kind of gave her an ultimatum to the block him. And so she took it. Yup. Block me. So I can't keep doing this and I should do so too and not wait for her. She then blocked me on WhatsApp. I wrote the third letter and sent her a text on Facebook stating I hope she saw the letter and that I hope she can think about us positively sometime again, a day later she unblocked me on WhatsApp.

Craig (12:54):

Do you think I can turn this around? Okay. Well there's a lot going on in this situation. Yes. This woman has not individuated from her mother and she still allowing her mother to control her life. And until she makes a decision that she's going to confront her mom and say, mom, I love you. But I got to date this guy, I care about him. I love him. You're going to take a back seat to whatever mom says or does. That's exactly right. Cause mom does not want to let her go. And the first step before you can, even individuate wait, is you have to physically separate to some extent she's still living upstairs from mom. So she doesn't have a chance. She's gonna have to fight if she wants to have a life. And I think in her mind, she's thinking, well, my feelings aren't so strong for him right now. I'm turned off by his behavior. I'm not that attracted to him. So it's not worth me. Confronting mom. She's kind of evaluating, right? Yes, it is. Anytime you can do it, honey, but she doesn't know that yet. Yeah. And what's the father doing? It's a little confusing. It seemed like dad was trying to give them some tips on how to work it out. Like dad was giving them a little bit of encouragement. Maybe that's where the split was in the family.

Margaret (14:20):

That's certainly what it sounds like. And you know, she has to refuse interpreting it as either I'm going to have my mother or I'm going to have my boyfriend. No, she needs to have her boyfriend. That's her developmental task for her time of life. Okay. She's in her twenties. That's what she's supposed to be doing. So she has a right to go on with her life and how mother handles it is up to mother.

Craig (14:46):

Yep. But she needs to refuse the bind of it's one or the other. So I think in this situation first of all, part of it is what's going on on her end that she has to be willing to confront mom and realize that mom's not really gonna abandon her walk away, but she doesn't, she hasn't figured that out. Although she may threaten, yeah. People get real scared when mom threatens. And part of the issue is on his end that he needs to behave in a more attractive way where he doesn't come across as so demanding for her time and gives her more freedom. Cause I would guess she probably has an avoidant attachment style with that being her mother. Right? So turning it around is going to be partially on you to improve your behaviors. When you do get in front of her, that you are more relaxed and not putting as much pressure on her to do what you want her to do. And to allow her more freedom that she feels like she wants. And for her to say, you know what? I think it's worth it to confront mom and to actually have the strength to do it.

Craig (15:58):

But until she does take on mom, they will, she will have no life. Mom will run the show. Mom will run the show. And so he has a decision to make to yeah, because he marries not only her. Yeah. That's true. So you gotta let her decide for herself if she wants to confront mom and just say, you know, it's totally up to you. If you want to talk to mom about what you're doing or if we're dating or not dating you just let me know if you want to see me and if you do, we'll go out and have a great time and then focus on having a great time with her when you can, and then letting her decide for herself what she wants to do about our family situation. You know, if you want to take on mom, I'll be there for you through that process.

Margaret (16:49):

Yeah. He probably say that out loud that he understands what a difficult thing that is just for her. Yeah. Tough situation though. Very tough situation for everybody involved.

No Contact and The Power of Time

Today we're going to be talking about the power of time and no contact. Yep. A good big topic, a big topic that all of you guys are constantly wondering about and thinking about. And so we're going to go through this thoroughly today, cause we understand how difficult it is to be in no contact. I've done it. I've done it for long periods of time and I know how scary it is and I know how much anxiety you're going through and how overwhelming it can feel. Right? So we are going to be talking about how powerful no contact really is, but the importance of time with no contact. Okay. No contact is not going to be powerful for three days. Okay. Or two weeks. Yeah. Sometimes it takes quite a bit of time to get your, your ex to a place where they're really missing you and regretting the situation.

Craig (01:51):

And we know that it's very scary where you feel like, well, it's hopeless. Maybe they're not coming back. It's been a couple of months. I still haven't heard from them. But attachment is very, very powerful. Yes. So I want to go through a bit about the breakup and all the things you guys are going through thoroughly. So we kind of get you on the same page as us. Okay. So somebody breaks up with you. And a lot of times we are absolutely shocked. We had no idea it was coming, right. That happens all the time. And they say they don't want to be with you anymore. And what is the first thing, we're overwhelmed with shock. We can't believe it. And sometimes it happens when you're in a great relationship. Like I talked about with the Applebee's girl, I thought the connection that we had was amazing.

Craig (02:46):

We were happy and I didn't think we would ever break up. And so we have no idea that it's coming. Now sometimes some of you guys are in situations where the situation was actually rocky and there were points where you even considered breaking up with them, but you didn't, you stuck through it and you thought, you know, I want to work this out. I love this person. And you're kind of sitting here now thinking, "I didn't break up with them when we had problems and now they're leaving me" and it's really upsetting.

Margaret (03:16):

Oh yes. The whole thing is terribly upsetting. People have panic attacks. They don't eat, it's awful

Craig (03:23):

No, absolutely. And we're going to get to that in a minute. But initially what happens is we desperately want to repair the bond immediately and we don't care what we say, what we do, what we have to do. We will literally do just about anything to have another chance. And I know what that feels like. Um we, we do the begging, the pleading, the screaming and the grand gesture, the handwritten letter, all of that stuff. Right. We do it all. But you have to realize that. I think in most cases the breakup was planned by the other person. Sure. They've thought about it for awhile. Yeah. Whereas you had no idea now. Sometimes a breakup does happen after a fight. You know, you have a big fight and somebody just says, I can't do this anymore. I'm done. But I think in most cases the person had been thinking about it and you had no idea. Right. And that can be really confusing. So, you know, they tell you, they don't want to do this anymore. And you're thinking, this is like a split decision. And you're in panic mode.

Margaret (04:37):

That is the first thing like shock and like panic. Yeah.

New Speaker (04:40):

Basically your brain is hijacked. Your amygdala has been taken and has taken over everything. Right? So what happens then? You're telling them, please don't do it. You're crying. You're screaming. Please I'll do anything. Give me another chance. Give us another chance. And they just put up that wall and they get ice cold.

Margaret (05:06):

Right. And that's to help them distance.

Craig (05:10):

Yep. Cause they don't want to change their mind there.

Margaret (05:15):

And we hear people say, how could my partner get so cold? So fast? Well, they're struggling to do this.

Craig (05:21):

Yeah. And as you may have heard me say, when I was going through that, I felt like the water was representative coming out of the faucet was her love. And then she turned it off and there wasn't another drip, not another drip no. So that's what it felt like for me. So after that doesn't work, we kind of go home, go back to our place if we're not living with them. And we're trying to like pull ourselves together, trying to figure out what's going on. And we kind of come to terms like we have to leave them alone. We're like, I'm not sure what to do here. I don't want to leave them alone.

Margaret (05:56):

What we hear all the time. I don't know what to do. I want to talk to them, but I don't know what to do.

Craig (06:01):

I just want to convince them to give us another chance I did that. I did that with the Applebee's girl. I remember going to her house and sitting across from her at the table and telling her, I don't understand. I love you. I can't believe you want to end this relationship. It doesn't make any sense to me. And so, you know, I've been there and then it's awful because you can't sleep. Okay. You can't eat. Your appetite is gone. Completely gone. You get diarrhea. You're you know, getting up three, four times a night with stomach aches everything physical that people throw up cold sweats. I used to get cold sweats.

Margaret (06:42):

Yes. But you know, powerful emotion can, can absolutely affect us physically. Yeah. Yeah. And just like kids, you know, who always have a stomachache and can't go to school the next day we get the stomach ache too. Yeah. Yup.

New Speaker (06:54):

Now there's a reason that we're talking about this because I want you to see that power of what happens to us with attachment. Okay. Your ex is not exempt from attachment,

Margaret (07:07):

No matter how cold they look when they walked away and no matter how many nosy, third parties are telling you, they look really happy now. They're not right. They're attached to you too.

Craig (07:21):

Exactly. So then you first, you've got all these physical symptoms. You're sick. You can't sleep. You can't eat. Your brain is constantly going back to your ex, what do I have to do? How can I fix this? How can I get another chance? And the obsessive, relentless and intrusive thoughts don't stop. It's exhausting. It's exhausting. I talked about like the pain in my chest. I felt like there was a giant gaping hole in my chest,

Margaret (07:54):

These physical pains and your heart was removed.

Craig (07:56):

Yeah. And there's just an empty cavity where my heart used to be. So then you got all of these feelings, so you can't think about anything but them where they're at, who they're talking to, what's going on. And literally every second away from them feels like an eternity. Think about it. Had you broken up with them, they would be experiencing this as well. That's my point is that we can't turn this off. Now, right now, we're the ones that are feeling it. Right. But the point is, is that when you leave people alone, they can have these feelings too.

Margaret (08:41):

Believe it or not. I know many people find it difficult to believe. Well, they turned so cold the last time I've talked to them. I can't believe they have any feelings for me. Yes they do.

Craig (08:51):

They hide it.

Margaret (08:52):

They put up the wall to do it. To do the breakup.

Craig (08:55):

Exactly. Yes. For whatever reason. Cause every situation as to why they ended it is different. Right. But I need space. Yes. They need, they need to be left alone. And when you leave them alone, that's when they start to have some of the symptoms that you have. Now, they're not going to tell you that they're anxious or they're stressed out or they can't stop thinking about you. Usually they do like a small little thing when they finally do reach out. Right. But even though they're acting like they're completely fine, their walls are up. They're not thinking about you. They are, they are. Yes, they are. And we get dumpers that do calls with us because they broke up with somebody and then they start to have all of the symptoms that the dumpy had when they reached out to the dumpy. And the dumpy was like, you know what? No, I don't want to do this. You see? And then the shoe goes on the other foot. Yeah.

Margaret (09:55):

And sometimes people almost forget who did the breaking up and you have to remind them, but excuse me, you broke up with her.

Craig (10:02):

Exactly. Yes. It's very interesting that, that some people do forget about that. So then what do you do? You're going through all this suffering. You're miserable. You can't stop thinking about it. And then you go to friends and family for advice. I've done it. Right. I would talk to everybody and anybody that would talk to me about the breakup advice,

Margaret (10:23):

Did you get terrible advice?

Craig (10:25):

Mixed advice, move on. Just move on. You know, they were in my particular situation, at least in the Applebee's one. They were very confused. Who literally her friends and family or friends and family couldn't believe it either. And they were like, I don't, I don't know what to tell you, Craig, like we didn't, we didn't know. We had no idea. So you get conflicting advice. One friend says this, your parents say send them flowers. Somebody told me that today send her flowers. Then the other one says go to her job. So don't do that. No, no, no, no, no, no. It's bad. But you can't stop thinking about it. Then you've got conflicting advice all over the internet of what to do, send them a good reminder text. Send them the handwritten letter.

Margaret (11:18):

Oh yes. It's a good reminder. Reminds him of some good times you had together. Remember the day we went to the beach and we had just the best time.

Craig (11:25):

Yeah. But you have to realize nothing is more powerful than attachment. Nothing is more powerful than love. And we want them to get to the point where they're regretting it and telling them a good reminder text doesn't sit there and make them regret it. Okay. One stupid little good reminder doesn't make them regret their breakup. It's ridiculous. Okay. Yes, it is. It is ridiculous.

Margaret (11:56):

I agree. I agree. And then there are the people who would say, you know, think of all the bad things about them, you know?

Craig (12:04):

Yeah. I mean, if you're thinking about the bad things of, I suppose, it's trying to get you to move on, but I don't know how it's gonna, it's not going to help you. Yeah. So you're going through all these symptoms on a daily basis. And every second, every hour just feels like an eternity and it feels like absolute torture. But the reality is, is that it takes time away from you away from the situation before they regret it. There is a lot of power in that time and space away from them. Right. Margaret, can you help them understand the importance of the time?

Margaret (12:45):

I know. And of course the first question we get is, well, when do you think I might hear from him or her? Well, and what I'll say is I don't have a crystal ball. I look at the length of time you've been together and the quality of the relationship. And if it was really good, then chances are eventually you will hear from them again, why shouldn't you contact them? Because you want to give them a chance to grieve. And even the person who did the breakup, okay. Who had to work up to it, had to get cold toward you to do it. They're going to grieve if you've been together for any length of time. And if you've cared about each other, they go through a grief process too. And that's when the third party always shows up and said, I heard from so-and-so that she's talking to this guy or that guy. And she looks very happy. Please try not to obsess about that because it may or may not be true. And it just doesn't tell you anything.

Craig (13:42):

It only tells you a little bit. It only tells you that in that moment, they may have been happy, but that doesn't mean they're not stalking you on social media and wondering what you're doing, wondering what's going on with you. And they often appear very confident with their decision. They really do

Margaret (13:59):

Well. The initial response to making the decision is relief. They felt like for whatever reason, they had to do it and they did it. So initially they're relieved that they got it over with. However, the tension will build up again, as they begin to grieve you. And there are stages of grief. The first one is shock. We've already covered that one. And then there's the process where you begin to sort of assess the reality of what's happened here. Oh, this person is more out of my life than I might've wanted. 

Craig (14:34):

Or that what was bothering them about the relationship was not as bad as they, it had felt for them at the time.

Margaret (14:41):

Right. And they may feel better. Feelings can change very quickly. Okay. When we have time to process, all right, but we live in an age of instant everything. And it's unfortunate that we've lost a sense of process. So people have to go through whatever it takes them to break up with you. And then they begin to realize that although they felt relieved at first, the tension is building for them and they're beginning to feel anxious. And they're beginning to miss you and common things during the day, make them think of you. And they really have urges to call you, but they don't want to do it cause they're the ones who broke up. And they go through all of this process and processes don't happen instantly or quickly, any more than breakups do. Okay. Anybody who breaks up with you has done a whole process of making this decision and they'll have to do a whole process of dealing with having made it and weeks or months is what we're talking about here. Yeah. I talked with someone recently and he wanted to know how many days. And of course I couldn't tell him that, but every now and then there are the sort of idle contacts. You know, you have a brief contact with somebody on social media or whatever, and that relieves your ex's anxiety. And that is not what you want to do. You want your ex to sit with the consequences of what they have done.

Craig (16:09):

Exactly. Like the feelings that you have, those overwhelming fears of anxiety that you're going to lose them to somebody else, all of those things. We want them to have to experience that as well, but it's not going to happen when you're writing them a handwritten letter

Margaret (16:27):

Or texting them periodically or doing any of those.

Craig (16:30):

It just doesn't work like that because then they don't really go through the same thing that you're going through. Right.

Margaret (16:37):

And people will say to me, well, why can't, why can't I just have a brief contact with them. Well you can, you're a grownup. You make your own decision. But if you want them to begin to feel what you're feeling, don't because it's a little fix, you know?

Craig (16:51):

Yeah. But they, they are going to have doubts. They're just not going to be clear about those doubts. They're going to have doubts by themselves. They're going to have doubts when they lay their head on the pillow at night or when they go out with this new, great person and they're doing things to annoy them already. They're going to think about you. Of course. Okay. And they're going to wonder where you're at and what you're doing. It's normal. And even if you don't know it, they're going to be but if you keep pushing them, they're gonna keep raising the walls and it's going to be even harder.

Margaret (17:24):

Yeah. Putting up their defenses more, as hard as it is to leave them alone. That's what you have to do.

Craig (17:30):

Exactly. So a lot of information out there is really bad. Ignore your ex, if your ex contacts you within 30 days, ignore them. No, we're not telling you to do that. We would never tell you to ignore your ex. Some people will say, well, it depends upon the reason that their ex is contacting you. No, no. If your ex is making a bid to repair this, that's exactly what we're looking for is for them to make any kind of effort to have you in their life. And you know, a lot of times they do what I have taught the indirect direct approach. I was wondering how your cat was doing today.

Craig (18:10):

I had somebody tell me that their ex contacted them and said, do you have my curling iron? And then a few hours later, she texts back, Oh, I have it over here. Of course she had, she knew that it wasn't his house. It was just an excuse to contract.

Margaret (18:27):

And what do we call that?

Craig (18:29):

The indirect direct approach.

Margaret (18:31):

People remember that very well. Yeah. Indirect, direct approach. I wasn't calling to have contact with you. Yeah.

Craig (18:36):

Yeah. but it takes time for the situation to change. It takes time for the person to go through the processing, to go through the grieving, to getting to the place where they miss you in their life. And they think, Oh my gosh, you're not coming back for me anymore. You're not chasing me anymore. You're not trying to get me back anymore? And then they start to think, Oh my gosh, I'm going to lose you. And it's, that is so powerful because that is love. That is attachment. And you can't turn that off, right?

Margaret (19:11):

Yeah. Even if you try, let me raise a question that I often hear his or her birthday is coming up in about two weeks. What do I do?

Craig (19:21):

You gotta leave them alone. Yeah. You gotta leave them alone, but it's their birthday. Yeah. I hear, I know. It's so hard. It's so hard. It's so hard. I had a guy a couple months ago that he didn't reach out for the ex's birthday. And that is when she actually got upset and thought, Oh my gosh, have you moved on for me? And she literally called him and asked him, have you moved on? Because he didn't reach out for the birthday. Right. And that's what we're trying to teach. When we say no contact, it's simply not reaching out. We want to connect. We want to reconnect, but we want it to be their idea. That's the key is they're the one reaching out.

Margaret (19:59):

You're the one breaking up and they're the ones who have to make a decision about contacting you. Yeah.

Craig (20:03):

So when you hear people telling you to ignore your ex for a certain amount of time or to ignore them when they reach out, I would not recommend that at all. And I'd question, anybody's understanding about how to repair a situation when you're ignoring somebody, who's making a bid to try and repair it with you. Right? I mean, it's just very frustrating to see that happen. And I see situations where like, people had an opportunity with their ex, but they were like, Oh, I was told to ignore them, but why they're reaching out to you? I don't understand why would you want to ignore them? So allow them to regret their decision. Dumpers, do regret their decisions. Margaret say it with me, dumpers, do regret their decision. And we know how comforting it is to hear that. And I've been there. I see it all the time.

Margaret (21:01):

And then we get the" yeah, buts," but I heard, but I heard, but I heard I know she's moved on. I know he's moved on already. No, you don't.

Craig (21:11):

Yeah. Look, not everybody's going to get a chance to get their ex back. We would never say that it's simply not the case. Every situation is unique and different in their own way. And some of you will get a chance. Some of you won't, but we want to prepare you the best way that we can. And if you have the mindset that you'll get another opportunity and you stay positive and you stay focused on that personal growth and becoming a better version of yourself, it's going to keep you in the right mindset for if they do reach out. And if they happen not to reach out, look at all the growth you've done. Look at how much more likely you're going to be improved in your future relationships and look at how much better your life is going to be. It's a win, win.

Margaret (21:57):

I heard somebody say just the other day, but it's been three weeks. You must have moved on, but it's been three months. They must have moved on. No, Nope. We can't estimate the amount of time it may take.

Craig (22:09):

No. And sometimes, you know, when you guys ask me, I will give my gut instinct. Sometimes I do too. You know, we don't know, but I will tell you, okay, in my experience, this is how long I think it'll be for your situation. But, you know, I don't act like I definitely know. I'm just saying, this is what my gut would tell me for you.

Margaret (22:33):

And that's what I would say as well. And people handled that quite well. And I've had people say to me, I'm sure you get this question all the time. Yes. And all I can do is look at the length of time you've been together and the quality of the relationship.

Craig (22:45):

Yup. Yup. Yup. And what's going on with that person? Why they broke up with you? Why they left the relationship? You know, how long has it been? Right.

Margaret (22:53):

Okay. The reasons did they give you,

Craig (22:55):

We break down and we look at all the different scenarios and all the different, you know, reasons that this didn't work. And you know, obviously we've done this for so long that we have a better understanding of what we see in situations like yours. So just understand leaving someone alone and allowing them to miss you is very powerful, but it takes time for that to happen. And so you want to really stay focused on what you're trying to achieve here and that's becoming the best version of yourself. And so that way, if they reach out, you are ready because I hate it when you guys are focused on the wrong things during no contact. And then they reach out and you just are completely shocked and you make a million mistakes. Yup. And that does happen. Yes, it does. And it's sad. And it's tough to see.

Craig (23:53):

I mean, I had a call with somebody this week that he had gotten his ex back and then he gave up on doing the work and wound up losing her. He got back with her and they broke up last, like spring. Then they were together and they broke up, I think just about a month ago. And I think I did the call with him yesterday. And so he didn't really make the changes on himself. Now he's in therapy now he's working on himself. Now he's doing the workbooks. And he's really hoping for another shot at this, which I think he probably will, based on what was going on for him. But, you know, I hate seeing a situation where somebody didn't focus on the right things in no contact. And they focused on the wrong thing where they don't watch the communication videos. You guys don't watch the videos on attachment styles or grieving or individuation.

Margaret (24:46):

Or personal growth stuff. Yeah. Yeah. There's no quick fix. Yeah.

Craig (24:54):

Right. Take a deep breath. Just realize that many of you are in situations where your ex is going to need some time and leaving them alone is a very, very powerful thing. And they won't realize what you're doing as long as you don't tell them. Right.

My Ex Doesn't Follow Me BUT Stalks My Stories

Today we're going to be talking about, my ex doesn't follow me, but they stalk my stories. Oh man. Oh, this happens a lot. And we're going to be talking about that today, but I did want to let you guys know that we do have these brand new phone cases, as you can see, I got coach Margaret here to Supreme leader and Craig's logo. Yup. And you could get that on our Teespring store. If you're interested, just search coach Craig Kenneth on the Teespring store and you'll find them there. There's also a tee shirt with Margaret on there with the same picture Supreme leader and a mug for all you guys have been asking for merchandise, we finally got some ready for you. So check them out. You can take us with you wherever you go.

Craig (01:32):

There you go. So let's talk about this Margaret Instagram and stalking on Instagram and Facebook stories is absolutely huge in the age of social media. And of course there will be new avenues to stalk people in the next couple of years. And somebody sent me an email asking about this. They said, hello, coach Craig. I've been watching your channel for about three months. And I have to say you and Margaret are the best. Not only have you helped me feel much better about my breakup, but you taught me more about healthy relationships than my parents. Well, I'm so glad I wanted to say that I have been doing the work, 20 to 30 minutes on the workbooks every day and I feel so much better. I have all 10 and I'm so proud of myself. I feel like I'm actually doing something about fixing my issues. I feel like I'm going to school, but learning about myself. So thank you. I have one question. My girlfriend broke up with me about four months ago. I haven't heard from her since we initially broke up at the time. She told me that she doesn't see any reason to have any contact anymore. She said she didn't want to talk about anything and unfollowed and removed me from her followers. However, I do notice that she watches my Instagram stories. Almost every time I post them, I don't get it. She says she doesn't want anything to do with me, but still stalks me. I see your confusion. Yeah. They said, this is really confusing. Does this mean she still cares about me? Does she want to get back together? Well, I would definitely say that getting back together would be a huge leap. That would be a leap. But if for me, her behavior is telling me she's interested in enough in you enough to look on a fairly regular basis. And you know what? The Instagram stories, she knows that he can see that she's watching. So she's brave enough to do it, knowing that he knows that she's watching all these times, because it sounds like it's happening on a pretty consistent basis. It's not like it happened once and it hasn't happened in a few months. It sounds like it's maybe on a regular basis here. Like maybe once or twice a week or something like that. But it is certainly what one would call a mixed message. It is. Yeah. She says to him, you know, I don't see any reason why we should be in contact anymore yet. She's watching to see what you're doing.

Margaret (04:27):

Right. and people do give off mixed messages as human beings. We often do that. Sometimes our brain and our heart don't catch up with each other all at the same time. Would it meet the level of indirect direct?

New Speaker (04:42):

No, because there's nothing direct about it.

Margaret (04:45):

Yeah. It's indirect, indirect. It's indirect indirect.

New Speaker (04:48):

They haven't made any kind of actual effort or contact to contact you, but let them watch. And I mean, certainly the behavior says the person still has some interests. Absolutely. Yeah. Your actions are telling you something there or her actions are telling you something right there. If they truly had no interest, they wouldn't leave. Well, they wouldn't look. They just wouldn't care. Right. But the fact that they look says they care at least somewhat.

Margaret (05:18):

Right. I learned a long time ago that if words say one thing and behavior says the other, the behavior speaks louder. Absolutely.

Craig (05:30):

Or as I sometimes say, actions speak louder than words. It's very similar. But yeah, I mean, she can tell you all that. She wants how she doesn't care if she doesn't want to talk to you, but she's doing something to see what you're doing to stay connected with you, to see what's going on in your life. And she, and she knows, you know. Yeah. So she's sending you a very, very mixed, it is a big mixed message and just allow her to continue to watch. You don't have to hide anything. Nope. If she wants to reach out, she will, you know, it might be one of those things where she's like, I I'm frustrated. I want to know what he's doing, you know, but she's by herself and she cracks and she looks, and then afterwards she's like, I shouldn't have looked.

Margaret (06:18):

And besides he knows.

Craig (06:20):

They looked at now, he knows, I left, Oh my God. Now she's embarrassed. Right. So, but let her find the courage to do the indirect direct approach, which I'm sure is what someone would do. She's going to move in steps. Yeah, exactly. She'll go from indirect and direct to a little more directly. It's a little bit more direct and that's when you can do something about it. But it's common even for ex's that tell you, they're not interested. They're never going to date you again. All of a sudden who's looking at your statuses on Facebook or Instagram or Snapchat and feelings change as you pointed out often. That's right. Because you know, at the time she had said to you, she didn't see a reason to continue having contact, but clearly that's at least changed in some degree, I guess she found one.

Craig (07:11):

Yeah, exactly. Right. so this is not a surprise to me. I see things like this all the time where exes cut you off. They don't want to talk to you. They defriend, you, they block you, now they're unblocking you.

Margaret (07:26):

And you feel like all is lost. Yeah.

New Speaker (07:28):

Yeah. But you know, they do something in the moment. They're emotional, they're upset, they're confused. And in time they can process things. They can think about it. They can deal with it. And a lot of times they come back into your life and want to revisit and they want to see where you're at, what you're doing and the more you've done to grow and change, the more likely they're going to be like, wow. I mean, this is incredible. How much you've changed in such a short amount of time. And that's a lot more attractive to them.

Margaret (08:01):

Yeah. But consider yourself ever so slightly flattered. Yeah. Person. Didn't forget you.

Craig (08:07):

That's true. Yeah. You guys always worried if they forgot you, not if they're looking at your stories, not if they're looking at your stuff. Absolutely. All right. So hopefully this makes you guys feel a little bit better and clears that up a little bit for you.

Out of Sight, Out of Mind During NO CONTACT? Will Your Ex Forget About You?

Today we're going to be talking about, out of sight out of mind. Well, I think that is a huge misconception. I just want to start with that but I think many people that, you know, even maybe advice that you see online, you'll hear things like out of sight, out of mind, there's one particular dating coach that I find extremely unhelpful. I won't name names, but their approach is very aggressive and in your face and almost gets you terrified that if you're not in your ex's face, they're going to stop thinking about you. They're going to move on. And I think it comes across as very toxic and hostile almost it's so aggressive or avoidant. I mean, it would scare you to death and you'd back off faster. Yeah. But this idea of out of sight out of mind is something that I think is a major misconception about human beings, right?

Craig (01:50):

When it comes to attachment, when we form a bond and emotional connection with somebody, we on some level, keep that bond forever. It goes on in our unconscious forever. It may not be as intense or the desire may not be there to be with that person, but you don't forget people that you truly bonded with. Right. Right. You want to hear about my Adam theory? Yes. I've read not all that long ago. And I don't claim to be an expert on this, but not long ago, someone who was writing about attachment, it's an article. I was reading talked about how Adam's work and if two atoms are attached to each other, at any point, they always, always are attracted to each other again and have something in common and have some connection. Okay. And the person was trying to say, so it is with human beings that once you've really had a connection with someone, it doesn't go away.

Craig (02:53):

No, it doesn't go away. And the reason that we're talking about this is that, you know, talk a lot about when somebody ends a relationship, not contacting them and respecting their decision and that we both understand that is absolutely terrifying. Absolutely terrifying. It might be one of the scariest things that you have to do or feel like you have to do in your life. And I understand that because I've been in that place, I've been in that situation where I had to do that and not knowing if it's the right decision is, you know, it's really scary. If I stop reaching out, they're going to forget me. They're going to forget all about me if I'm not reaching out, out of sight, out of mind.

Craig (03:42):

Margaret, do you have any idea where this concept may have even come from?

Margaret (03:47):

I think there's another early process. Of course, that has to do with that. And that is that again, if we are nurtured and cared for enough as little ones, eventually we learn to hold on to kind of a snapshot of mom so that when we're left alone or in our crib or our bed or whatever. And we don't see her and she's not near us. We can call up what her face looks like or remember what her voice sounds like. Yeah. Okay. So there is a way we can kind of take people with us. Yeah. And even though we're often not aware of it, most of us adults calm ourselves down somehow by getting back in touch with that, now we don't have time to do that in a split second, nor are we terribly aware of it. But if you've not had the experience of being able to do that, I'm sure you would believe everywhere in your heart that this person's just going to forget.

Craig (04:46):

It probably came from somebody that has an anxious attachment style and they were thinking, and that was their ultimate fear out of sight, out of mind. And for some reason it became a mainstream thought or process maybe amongst the anxious people.

Margaret (05:05):

Right. And it certainly was not a big idea with anybody who was into the unconscious because not much is out of mind.

Craig (05:14):

But you know, it's important to understand that when we form this bond, it's not just the, the thought of, "I love this person". It's a real connection that hits us on deep levels. And that just doesn't, you never kind of stop caring about them. I care about people that I dated many years ago and you know, it doesn't mean that I would date them again, but I certainly wouldn't forget them. I could call up their voice. Right. And if, if you're really struggling to call up their voice, I had somebody tell me this week, they couldn't call up their ex's voice, right. Then you probably had a massive trauma with your caregivers.

Margaret (05:59):

Sometimes it's helpful to look at a picture in order to be able to grieve because grieving is difficult If you can't call up the person's picture and or voice. That's interesting. Yeah. Sometimes it's helpful to look at a picture, even though it will make you sad, it may help you grieve. And I realized that after working with families who were too crazy to have people have time to internalize the picture of mom and so forth and so on. And I realized that they couldn't grieve. And finally it occurred to me to ask them to bring in the family album and that would do it. They would get to see the pictures of the lost people and so forth. And sometimes that would help them be able to grieve.

Craig (06:42):

And that makes me think of clients that I've worked with even many years ago, locally, that kids that I worked with had never met their father, never even seen a picture of their father and their behavior was just outrageous. They couldn't calm themselves down. They were extremely, I remember one kid was so hyperactive. Right. He had never seen his father never even seen a picture. Right. So how could he grieve that? Yeah.

Margaret (07:11):

And I've heard many people say, well, out of sight, out of my father, isn't involved. And I would say, no, you're supposed to have two parents watch TV for five minutes. You find that out. This is a huge issue always. Right. And if mom is willing to give up the information, sometimes she is sometimes she isn't, it's a huge help for this kid to know as much as he can know, because he has degrees.

Craig (07:32):

Yeah. So out of sight, out of mind is it's very helpful to know that when you're in no contact, you're leaving your ex alone. You're allowing them to sit with the decision. You're allowing them to start to wonder if it's the right idea. They're not going to forget about you. On their end, they're going to think about you. It depends upon what particularly happened in your relationship. Why it ended the circumstances, all of that is going to affect that. But at the end of the day, they are going to think about you.

Margaret (08:09):

Yes they are. And you hear people often say too, "well, did they ever love me? Maybe they never loved me. And they just kind of strung me along." No, they wouldn't have stayed around as long as they did. Okay. So they did have some genuine feeling for you and know they're not going to forget you, even if they want to.

Craig (08:26):

Yeah. And one of the things that is so difficult about being in no contact is you're constantly obsessing about if they're thinking about you, have they moved on, will you, will you ever hear from them again? And every minute feels like an eternity. Right?

Margaret (08:48):

And I think that's a great observation because anytime we're talking about anything that relates to unconscious material, it's important to remember that the unconscious doesn't do time. Everything is forever and everything is blissful. And so, it can slow down and seem like forever and time can get all this story and you're not going crazy. That's just kinda how it works.

Craig (09:13):

So it's awful because let's say you're sending there for 10 minutes by yourself. You might have a hundred thoughts about where are they at? What are they doing? Where are they looking at their social media, looking at their Facebook, obsessing about the last argument, obsessing about the last things they said to you, wondering if they're ever going to reach out wondering if they still care about you. And it just feels like that 10 minute period feels like an entire day. Yeah, sure. And I can remember literally sitting in my room after the Applebee's breakup in particular on the bed and just not being able to stop thinking about it. Just, I couldn't think about anything else. I, I couldn't even be distracted by a video game or TV or anything. I just was staring at old messages or, you know, obsessing about, will they contact me today? It's been three days and it just feels like an endless, you're trapped in this endless time and moment of uncertainty and fear and just being fearful.

Margaret (10:28):

Terrified. Yes. Being separated always is scary. Yeah.

Craig (10:32):

Yeah. But it's just, this moment feels endless. If that makes sense.

Margaret (10:36):

It does. You were talking about endless moments when we talk about the unconscious, this feeling must be forever too. The bliss thing didn't work out, but this abandonment thinks seems forever.

Craig (10:46):

Yeah. And the other thing that you probably think, and I know I was thinking, this is that, you know, "was our relationship meaningless to them". Right. And you start to obsess about it. Did they ever even care about me? How could they do this to me? I don't understand how could they want this connection, this dynamic that we had to go away, you know, especially if you're in a relationship where you're getting along so well and you know, you thought it was relatively healthy relationship, you know, then it's just like, you're, you can't even find faults. You're not, you know what I mean? You're just like, I don't even usually get angry at them. You know,

Margaret (11:28):

It feels like a physical wound, almost

Craig (11:31):

Pain is physical. It can be literally physical. It physically hurts for me. And, as I worked on understanding breakups more and more and how it relates to our attachment. I understand that the anxiety that I was feeling after my breakup was very similar, the anxiety I had as a kid. And I didn't understand that, that, you know, because my mom and dad were split up when I was about a year and a half old, and my dad left my mom to be with another woman. My mom had a lot of anxiety or so I can imagine. And so she was very stressed out about the bills and not being able to afford the house. And She was afraid that my dad would take me away. She would catastrophize.

Margaret (12:24):

The woman has to be a nervous wreck. So you picked that up, babies, pick it up,

Craig (12:29):

I absorbed all that anxiety. And then, you know, having to physically leave to be at my dad's house around a stepmother that I didn't like. And I got those, you know, we talked about me having the intuition that she wasn't good. And I think, you know, she probably has several diagnoses

Craig (12:55):

But when I had to go over there, I would cry all the time. I would cry on the weekends. I would cry being away from my mom,

Margaret (13:02):

I was going to say, you probably worried about your anxious mother, kids worry about parents. Sure.

Craig (13:08):

And I, you know, having to go there on the summer, I would go to camp and, you know, looking at it now, it was a really nice camp. They had go carts and swimming and all kinds of fun arts and crafts. And it was probably a wonderful camp, but I would literally be sick every morning. They would want us to go swimming. First thing in the morning, I would have earaches. I wouldn't, I would be crying at camp. I would, I would want to go home.

Margaret (13:36):

I also think the water would be cold first thing.

Craig (13:40):

And so it was so traumatic for me being away from my mom. And so I experienced a lot of the same symptoms, you know, as an adult, going through my breakup

Margaret (13:54):

And thank you for sharing that, Craig, that's generous of you. And that's exactly what happens that if we have early separations, the separation and adulthood calls, all that stuff.

Craig (14:04):

Yeah. So I think, you know, people that are more secure and had a healthier childhood and connection with their parents, the breakups aren't as painful to them 

Margaret (14:17):

Still painful, but not as, yeah,

Craig (14:19):

They are painful, but I'm just saying they probably don't experience it the same way because I, you know, like with trauma that it stays in the body. Right. You want to talk a little bit, you know, there's a book called the trauma the body keeps score.

Margaret (14:35):

The Body Keeps the Score. We'll do a whole thing on that one day, but the body, the body absorbs trauma. Yes, absolutely. So your body was anxious and it was no wonder you had earaches.

Craig (14:47):

Yeah. Probably very reflective of how I felt when was little being away from home and away from mom, is how I felt in the break actually. And I didn't understand that. I mean, how could I have known that? So many of you, if you, as you take a deeper look at your issues in your childhood, you may realize, Oh, I was sent to my grandma's house for two years or I was shipped off to another country

Margaret (15:15):

Right. And then you have to remind yourself, I don't have to go there now. I'm a, I'm a grown up and yes, I have all those feelings, but I don't have to go to another country. I don't have to go to my grandma's. I can stay right here. I'm a grownup now. And it's important to do that, to reorient yourself to the present. Yeah,

Craig (15:32):

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. But I think it was for me, that timeless feeling of feeling devastated and separated and scared is what was coming out of my unconscious when I was in no contact and not reaching out to my ex.

Margaret (15:49):

Never have we said no contact was easy. No.

Craig (15:53):

We understand why the out of sight out of mind is so scary that your unconscious is like, "they're never going to come back. They're going to forget about me." Right. And that's just not the case.

Margaret (16:08):

Well, that makes me think of the movie home alone, which was a big hit and lots of people watched it and it probably speaks to a primal fear that the family will forget me and leave me behind. And they did. I watched it, the poor kid got left behind it's everybody's worst fear.

Craig (16:28):

Now the other thing is that what's so difficult is that usually the last interactions with an ex are, "I don't care about you. I don't want to talk to you anymore. This is over, I'm never going to give you another chance" because they're trying to separate from you and, and put that wall up. So they don't think you're going to keep manipulating them or trying to harass them or change their mind. Right. And so because those interactions, they they're. So even cruel at times, it's exasperating, the you're going to forget about me. Oh my gosh. If I don't do it,

Margaret (17:08):

She said, she's never gonna think about me again. That she's done with me. She's through with me. She's never given me another chance. So why should I think she'll ever think about me again? Yeah.

Craig (17:17):

But what happens is, as you leave them alone and they have some space to, you know, think about things, realize that the issue is may have not been as bad as they were feeling at the time or unhappy about certain things. Those issues aren't as intense for them, that all plays out in their unconscious, Margaret. And you wanted to talk about now they have the same,

Margaret (17:42):

They have the same unconscious responses that you do. So even if you did the breaking up, okay, you might feel at first, then you might feel a little better for a little while, but eventually it will catch up to you. And you're going to grieve this loss also. And you're going to wonder if you made the right decision and people say, well, if there are no contact, but I heard from that ubiquitously third party, you know, the third party that shows up everywhere and says, I saw so and so out at a bar. And they looked very happy with 12 new guys. Okay. You're always going to hear that one, but is your ex partner liable to go off and live happily ever after with the next person they meet,

Craig (18:21):

Not likely. It's very, very unlikely.

Margaret (18:24):

It may take them awhile to get around, to grieving the relationship with you, but they will. Okay. Yeah.

Craig (18:31):

And you know, we have this fear that they are going to see our ex as this amazing person, the way that we see them, but that often doesn't happen. And, you know, even like with the Applebee's situation with that girl, she thought she was going to date this new guy. And what did he do? He broke up with her to be with the girl that he really wanted to be with. Beaky buzzer wound up marrying that girl. Yeah, he was on a rebound is where he was. So, and what happened is the girl that he had longed for, for, for years saw that he got into a relationship with my ex. So that's when she finally wanted him because he became unavailable. And then the minute he had the opportunity, he dropped my ex and she told me that she admitted it. She came clean and said, you deserve to know this. So his rebound work in a way. Yeah. Yeah. but she told me that karma got me and you deserve to know,

Margaret (19:42):

Oh yeah, that was good of her.

Craig (19:46):

But you know, one thing that you said to me earlier is that even for them, the, the dumper that they're on some level insulted that the relationship

Margaret (20:03):

Are always insulted when our initial fantasy that this will be perfect and blissful doesn't work out. Absolutely never is a human being happy with the end of a relationship. Even if you, for whatever reason, think you need to end it. Yeah. You grieve too. You're shocked. And you grief too. Yeah.

Craig (20:23):

So have comfort in knowing that you are not going to be out of their mind, even if they, even, if they just said, I'm not going to think about him. I don't want him back. Even if they consciously did that, you're still gonna come up in their unconscious

Margaret (20:39):

And there's still going to be that favorite song you enjoyed that night

Craig (20:43):

Or the movies that you loved, or that hobby that you liked, you know, I'm sure they always saw that thing that you, no matter where they're going to go, you're going to come up. Right. You're going to come up in their unconscious it's it's inescapable. I'm sure that anytime any of my exes see like, like a star Wars movie coming out, they all know they're thinking of me. I know it. There's just no way they're escaping that. No, they can't just get it. And isn't that nice. Yeah. There are certain things they won't be able to escape. Like if I see a new Scooby doo movie come out, one of my other exes will come up or something. You know what I mean? Other things from other exes of when I see things that they enjoyed it come, they come up in my unconscious and that's okay.

Margaret (21:28):

And, and, you know, a good thing is if you can remember that you enjoyed the relationship for at least as long as it lasted and every time a loss comes up, you work through it a little further. Yeah.

Craig (21:38):

The point is, is that out of sight out of mind? No. No, we disagree. And that's why we go on and on about the unconscious, because we want you to understand why that is. Absolutely. So hopefully you found this video helpful.

Your Ex's Inner Thoughts (Why They Pushed You Away)

Today we're going to be talking about why they pushed us away. You know, a lot of times we're in a relationship and we're happy and we think things are going well. And the next thing you know, your ex has pushed you away, or your partner at the time is pushing you away. There's sabotaging things, there's things going on and he can't figure out why, what is going on with this person?

Margaret (01:08):

You loved me last week and this week you don't.

Craig (01:11):

So Margaret has some great research today that she wants to share on what causes this. Cause it's good to understand what your ex has gone through or your partners are going through within them internally that we don't understand.

Margaret (01:25):

So I'm going to share with you, this particular article was written by one of the Firestones. Now let me clarify the Firestones, I've presented several times work by Lisa Firestone, who talks about your inner inner critic. That mean voice that you have inside that puts you down and encourages you to put yourself down and tells you what's wrong with you. So I finally figured out who they all are. There's Robert Firestone, a psychologist who's quite famous and he married his wife named Tamsen. So she's, Tamsen Firestone. And then there's their daughter, Lisa Firestone. So at least I've got that much straight.

Craig (02:04):

And don't forget about Lenny.

Margaret (02:06):

Get out of here.

Craig (02:07):

Lenny Firestone. He's the one that runs the tires, right?

Margaret (02:10):

Yeah. Don't tread on me. Oh, that was a terrible pun. Anyway, I have finally figured out who these people are, but they all specialize in talking about internal processes and our inner critics and how they can be very destructive to us if we don't know they're there. Okay. And we often hear people after a breakup listing what's wrong with them beating themselves up and doing all sorts of things. Yeah. So fortunately the Firestones are trying to help us not do that. And the particular book I just read recently was called dare to love, meaning, and reminding us that love can be very scary. And for several reasons, which I'm going to talk about one at a time we can run into pushing love away. Not that we meant to, but somehow we get.

Craig (03:00):

You want to think about this long and hard because this is exactly what may have happened with your partner.

Margaret (03:04):

Absolutely. When you're talking about a breakup and so how to deal with your critical inner voice, first of all, you have to figure out that it's there and to do that, what you do is you go back and you think about it. Are you beating yourself up after the breakup? And most people, men and women, are beating themselves up after the breakup. I think men, men fare a little bit better than women do on that, but women are brutal to themselves. Okay. I'm not attractive enough. I wasn't exciting enough. There were all these things I didn't do. So first of all, you want to find out what...

Craig (03:43):

I think men probably focusing on how they were neglectful

Margaret (03:49):

Yeah. "I Spent too much time out of the house. I spent too much time on my computer. I played video games when she would try to talk to me."

Craig (03:57):

'I wasn't attentive enough." Right

Margaret (04:00):

Right. I wasn't. And that's oftentimes the deal. Yep. Okay. so what, what this gentleman suggests is sit down and think about the bad things you say to yourself. And one of the ways that you commonly asked the question is to say, "how are you hard on yourself?" Okay. "How Much blame do you take when things go wrong?" And everybody can answer that question. And most people will. So if your inner voice is saying to you and, and they give you a particular example, and this is a woman named Gloria and Gloria has been married for a few years to a guy named Nick and they have a couple of kids. So she is staying home and taking care of the children. And her inner voice says to her I'm not interesting anymore. I'm not the same person I was when I was working.

Margaret (04:51):

I'm not fun to be with anymore. I'm not attractive. Who am I kidding? I'm fat. I'm not attractive anymore. I'm past my prime. I'm just a chubby matronly mom and Nick doesn't care about me anyway, if it weren't for me, Nick would be happy to just this, let this relationship die out. But that's just kind of how it is with relationships. Talk about negative. Right? Now you notice she hasn't talked to Nick about this. So what the author suggests is you rewrite this in the second person, you rewrite it as if some outside force is saying this to you. Okay. "You are not attractive. You are not interesting anymore." That puts a little bit outside you and invites you to get angry about something being that destructive to you.

Craig (05:45):

Like "who do you think you are?"

Margaret (05:48):

That's exactly right. And that's the goal. All right. So you write it down in the steps with a "you". I'm not interesting anymore becomes "you are not interesting anymore." "You're not fun to be with anymore. You are not the same person you were when you were working", you get the idea, and you verbalize your statements. Even if they feel hurtful and make you sad or angry. Cause once you start understanding that you're saying this to yourself, it's very upsetting. Yeah. Okay.

Craig (06:18):

And you have to realize that many of you were with partners that were doing this to themselves and that they were saying things like this to themselves. And that's, you know, some of the reasons that they broke up with you is because they were doing this to themself and you probably didn't pick up on it, or weren't really aware of that internal struggle.

Margaret (06:40):

Okay. The next step. So you're going to, you're going to figure out what, what you say to yourself. You're going to write it down as a "you," and then you're going to reflect on this. And in this step, people usually recognize that the critical inner voice represents some way in which they were treated during childhood, by a particular parent, another family member, a significant person outside the family, like a coach or a teacher. Okay. We don't get these ideas from nowhere. So the next step is you confront the inner voice. So finally Gloria said to her critical voice, "you're always criticizing me and saying I'm boring and unattractive, exclamation point. You're always telling me that nobody could love me. That's the message that you're getting across to me. Well, it isn't true. I'm the same person I was when Nick met me. And I'm the same person he married. I'm still interesting and fun and attractive. There is nothing wrong with me. The real truth is that all you ever care about is tearing me down and that's all you've ever cared about. Shut up. I'm done listening to you." All right, Gloria. Okay. And that's exactly what you do.

Craig (07:53):

No, maybe don't say this while you're walking through Walmart.

Margaret (07:56):

Probably not a good idea. You might bump into somebody. Um but anyway, that's, that's step one. That's my first message. First. Think about how you do it to you.

Craig (08:08):

Yeah. And many of you are doing this, but also understand that, you know, your partners are going to do this to themselves too. And if you think back, you may have heard them saying things to themselves about themselves that were really critical. Right.

Margaret (08:23):

Just pick up on it. Yeah. "I'm so dumb. I'm so clumsy. I'm so stupid." But anyway, this poor Nick I guess he works hard and he's out of the house quite a bit, but he's trying to set them up for a future and he has no idea she's thinking these things. Yeah.

Craig (08:38):

And so it's helpful to understand that, you know, you look so much at the ex making the decision or your partner making decision to end it, but they were going through an internal struggle

Margaret (08:52):

You don't know what they were being told. She was being told that your husband really isn't that into you anymore. And it was absolutely not true. Yeah. He was out trying to make a living and trying to better them.

Craig (09:04):

Next thing you know, they've left you and you're like, "what did I do wrong?"

Margaret (09:08):

And poor Nick. He didn't do anything wrong.

Craig (09:11):

Yeah. So it's helpful to understand, you know, some of the internal processes that we have in our mind, the internal critic, right. You said is very hard to ignore,

Margaret (09:23):

Very hard to ignore. If you're having those thoughts and beating yourself up and beating yourself up as a, is a common way to say it it's never helpful and it could be distorted. Yeah. All right. So all sorts of things can be going on inside your partner that you don't even know about. All right. And it's not always about you.

Craig (09:44):

Absolutely. Right. Helpful stuff.