My Ex Got Serious With Someone Else Right Away

Craig (00:00):

Today we're going to be talking about my ex got serious with someone else right away. Talk about awful Margaret.

Margaret (00:50):

I just knew I wasn't good enough

Craig (00:54):

If being broken up with isn't the worst thing to have them leave you for somebody else or date somebody new right afterwards. That just is like a thousand times worse.

Margaret (01:05):

Aside. Yes. Okay. You're left with no self-esteem yeah. It's not only on the floor. It's in the basement,

Craig (01:11):

Especially if they said I don't want to be in a relationship right now. And then three weeks later, they're in a relationship or three days later. Exactly. It's brutal. It's brutal. And you know, I have to say, I just want to say this upfront, when you're going through it, it feels like that next person is going to replace you and they're going to get serious and they're going to be together forever.

Margaret (01:37):

And they're going off into the sunset together any day now.

Craig (01:41):

Yeah. And I've been through that Margaret and you helped me see many, many years ago that it wasn't the case, even though I was absolutely convinced that it would be

Margaret (01:50):

Well I'm most people are, Oh, I know. She's she hooked up with this guy really fast. And this is it. Probably not

Craig (01:56):

The reason that it looks like that is because in the beginning it's so exciting and new, and the other people are fantasizing about how wonderful this new person is going to be. New people are always wonderful. Yes. And then, you know, several months later it usually falls apart. But that in that time it feels like it's never going to turn around there. That's it. We're done. We're over. And they're just getting more and more attached to me. They're not going to care about me. Their bond for me is gone. Talk about that. Margaret, the bond for me is gone. They're no longer attached to me. Is that possible?

Margaret (02:35):

No, it's really not. If you date someone with, for any length of time, you spend time with them, you live with them, you cook with them, you have sex with them. You don't forget that person in five minutes. It's just not human to be able to do it. Yeah. It's the very rare person who is so attachment damaged that they could do that and say, Oh, well I'll just get another one. No, doesn't happen. Even though it feels like it should. And there's always that ubiquitous third party who wants to tell you how great you're ex looks at the bar with the new guy, she looks really happy. She looks great physically. Yeah. Yeah. What she is possibly is relieved that she has finally broken up with you. Cause she felt like she had to

Craig (03:24):

Many times it doesn't last too long. It doesn't sometimes it does sometimes, but I would say probably 3%. Oh yeah. I wouldn't give it much.

Margaret (03:36):

No, no, but it's what it feels like. I think to the person who's been abandoned to centrally, so,

Craig (03:42):

Oh, I had a short Instagram message today and I got an email coaching too, that we're going to get to.

Margaret (03:48):

Can I add one more thing? The other thing is you always think that the person never loved you. If she could do this to me, if we could be together for a year and now, you know, in less than three weeks, she's with this other guy, it means she never loved me. No, it doesn't. People have to go cold in order to break up when they feel they have to. Yeah. So it doesn't mean that people are startled when I say it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's true. I'm sorry.

Craig (04:18):

That's okay. I asked people to today, before we started filming, if they would share any kind of success story they had in the DM to me and I pulled this one out, they said, hi, Craig I'm not trying to weasel my way out of paying for coaching. I just want to thank you for helping me go through the breakup and giving me hope. I was always doing the work, but now I'm working even harder. I couldn't sleep for days until a friend of mine recommended your channel. The videos calmed me down and made me go pursue what I can control. Thank you for for being true to the people and not a scam artist. We need more people like you and Margaret. Thank you for you guys. All recommending us to friends and family. Yes. We always appreciate that you guys are willing to share us. And when your friends are struggling with their relationship, that you've put us, put them on our channel. We always appreciate that. So thank you.

Margaret (05:35):

You mean you're decent and have ethics. Wow. Imagine, it's nice to find people are decent and have it. Yeah.

Craig (05:43):

Yes. What many of you guys don't work with is Margaret and I worked with low-income families for almost our entire career. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And I did this because I was passionate about it. Right. And because I knew I could be successful at it and could change breakups and the understanding of breakups. Right. And right. And, and I always had to play, honestly, I always had the plan of bringing Margaret on board and that was always a part of what I was going to do when I started the channel. She wasn't on board for a couple of years, right? Probably about two years. Yeah. And now the new coach has been training with us since last July. But what you don't know is she helped me do volumes one through 10 of the workbooks. Really, they look gorgeous and incredible because of her. And the very first day I started filming videos and recording videos, even before I launched the channel, we filmed two videos together. So she has been in the background of this the entire time. And maybe I will show you guys that video because I know there will be doubters out there, but you can actually, if I do launch it, you'll actually see the upload date was before anything had ever come out before.

Margaret (07:03):

And when you get to meet her, you will love her.

Craig (07:05):

She's fantastic. Wonderful. She's fantastic. And we'll talk to you about the training that she's had, but she won't be doing any coachings anytime soon she will be training and she will be on video. So you guys get to know her, but you're gonna love her.

Margaret (07:19):

Yup, absolutely. We wouldn't hire any scale artists. No,

Craig (07:24):

No. We're not about that scam artists life. So this was an email coaching from a guy in his mid forties, dating a woman in her late twenties. Okay. So he said, my ex broke up with me in early may. After about 10 months saying there was no spark, but people with ulterior motives influenced her to break up with me,

Margaret (07:57):

Said she or says he, or you don't know at this point, you don't know.

Craig (08:01):

No at this point, but it's certainly a red flag that either he's not sure. Or has this woman not individuated that she can make her own decisions. We continue to be friends with benefits until late June. When she got into a relationship I believe is a rebound. Okay. So this is what I was talking about is right away. After the relationship, she started dating somebody new. He says, I took the breakup fine, but lost it when they started dating the other guy. See, that's what I'm saying, Margaret is that at first he was okay, then you find out there's somebody else involved and it's just devastating. Oh, it's the worst feeling. I did not contact her after, but she contacted me indirectly on the 4th of July. She then moved in with the guy on the fifth.

Margaret (09:03):

Oh, you think she has a little trouble with decisions?

Craig (09:06):

She's got a little trouble with something, Margaret. Yeah. But it's certainly very bizarre behavior. Right? It's going to go on. She then sent me another message a few days later and we started talking and mind you she's just moved in with this new guy. She's broken up with him. Why is she reaching out to him if she's broken up with him and wants to be with this new guy?

Margaret (09:30):

This poor lady has no idea what she wants, sounds like.

Craig (09:35):

Okay. We made plans to get together, to do my taxes, but then I screwed up and started liking things on her Facebook. So now what that probably made her feel like, Oh, it was, Oh no, he's publicly putting this out there. This new guy that I'm living with is seeing this. I realized what I did and tried to go no contact again with a short message that was worded poorly. She then blocked me on Facebook. I found out later her boyfriend and best friend told her to block me. And she did that for about four days. This girls all over the place that people are telling her to block him. So she does it. Then she unblocked him. I mean, the amount of mixed messages here. It's enough to make you nuts

Margaret (10:23):

Enough to make anybody nuts.

Craig (10:25):

She then unblocked me and then told me it was okay to come in on that Saturday to talk. Meaning I guess for the taxes, it went well until her boyfriend showed up. Okay. So he must have known somehow we started texting and I went in again and we talk and it was going really well. Talking about past sex and future plans. Then the boyfriend showed up again. This guy, he knows something's up, right? I mean, he, this girl just moved in with him and he already doesn't trust her. I look at her behavior. She's like, what is she doing here? She breaks up with him a month later, moves in with a new guy the day after she's messaging him again. She's talking with this guy about sex. A week later, still texting every now and then I go back to tell her I wanted to back off for a while. I think he should have just backed off. I don't think there was any reason to tell her he was going to back up. I think he got over anxious and he was like, Oh, I'm going to tell her I'm backing off. He panicked. She said, she didn't want me to, of course, she's going to tell you, she doesn't want you to back off because she's confused. And you're her other option. Why screw it up with this other guy here. It might not work. So I don't want you to back off. I want to keep you breadcrumbed.

Craig (11:56):

And I told her what I want. Not begging. It went really well. She did tell me there's no chance of getting back together, but hesitantly,

Margaret (12:09):

You got to take it at face value. She said the words.

Craig (12:13):

It's so odd to me that she, he says it went really well. And then literally it doesn't, there's not even a comma. Well, she did tell me there's no chance of getting back together.

Margaret (12:28):

He enjoyed the conversation. Yeah. But you can't read anybody's mind if she said the words hesitant doesn't come. She certainly giving him mixed messages, I guess. Right.

Craig (12:39):

All over the place because she's laughing and probably having a good time with them. But then she's saying, but we're never going

Margaret (12:45):

Exactly. That's my vision too.

Craig (12:49):

And she was understanding and still wanted me around. I mean, could you imagine being this, this other guy, if you found out what she was doing with this other guy that she just left to be with you. We then joked and stuff. This Tuesday, he, I went in and she flirted with me and told me she was unhappy with the boyfriend. My new she's only been with this new guy for like a month.

Margaret (13:19):

What a surprise.

Craig (13:21):

Ah, yeah. She wanted me to send this video I made for her and a sex story, which I'm good at.

Margaret (13:32):

Where did she want him to send it?

Craig (13:34):

I guess to text her, some kind of sex story, which I'm good at. I like the part that he added, which I'm good at.

Margaret (13:43):

Okay. That kinda makes me happy. I write sexy.

Craig (13:46):

Wait, sex stories. Yeah. I don't know what the video is. I probably don't know what the video is. You said it felt like old times. I went in and talked to her the next morning.

Margaret (13:58):

So obviously she has an office where she does taxes. Is that it?

Craig (14:01):

I guess. So that's what it seems like she said that night that she got drunk and talked with the boyfriend and found out he is hung up on his ex as well. And they made up, so now that she was afraid she was going to lose this guy. She was like, Oh no, we have to make up.

Margaret (14:20):

At what course, they jumped into it way too fast. And then found out that they were not over their exes, which were two minutes old. Yeah. Yeah.

Craig (14:29):

We then talked some more and she wanted to keep reaching for me, but would pull back and kept saying how good looking I was. Then the boyfriend showed up surprised and made a scene with me in front of her, he then left and she was hurting and wanted him to come back. She asked me to leave. She texted me later. She wasn't mad or upset with me. I texted the next morning to make sure she was okay. I told her I didn't want to cause her any more problems for her. I would understand. She again said she wasn't mad or upset with me, but needed a few. I'm leaving her alone, but not sure what I should do. Any help?

Margaret (15:18):

It's hard to know where to begin, huh? Yeah.

Craig (15:21):

Well now how old is she? I'll go back and look. She is in her late twenties. I think she was fairly close to 30 and he's mid forties, mid forties. I don't know about the other guy. Well, let me start with this. How she's treating this other guy is how she's going to treat you. If she already hasn't done these things, right. She doesn't seem very faithful to me. Okay. If she's in a relationship, I mean, let's just say that she didn't talk to this guy until you guys were broken up. Let's say she did meet him later. Even if that's the case, look at how disrespectful she's being to the new boyfriend, telling you to send sex stories, telling you how good looking you are, telling you, you don't want, she doesn't want you to leave her alone.

Margaret (16:18):

There's no chance of getting back together. And she's with the other guy exactly. Who she's moved in with. That would be enough to make anybody crazy.

Craig (16:25):

Yeah. But imagine being the other guy, imagine if he knew how she was really behaving. So my point is, look at that. She could do that to you. If you got back together with her, if she didn't already do it with this guy beforehand and we'll, and we'll do it, then we have the issue of people or influencer to break up with you.

Margaret (16:46):

No, she doesn't. That's very strange. I love to know the truth about that

Craig (16:51):

I suspect, It's probably the best friend and this other guy, I think that's, who was influencing her to break up with him

Margaret (17:00):

If it's even true. But if that's the case, there are people who can't manage a one-on-one relationship and always somehow managed to drag in a third party. And it almost sounds a bit like that. I can't do one-on-one with you. I can't do one-on-one with my boyfriend, but if I keep both of you, I can kind of juggle in a way that works for me. And I won't have to get too close to anybody,

Craig (17:27):

But she sends this guy just enough messages to keep him around. But then we'll say, but we're never going to get back together again. You can send me your sex stories. They're wonderful. He's very good. Very good at it. But I'm never going to get back with you. I mean, the mixed messages there, I mean, they are enough to keep him like going nuts and keep them on the hook. Yeah. So, I mean, where do we go Margaret?

Margaret (17:59):

If we ask him what's in it for him, what would he say?

Craig (18:03):

That's a good question. That's something he should think about

Margaret (18:06):

What's in this for you. Yeah. Okay. and it would be very interesting what his perception would be of that. He might think if he hangs in there long enough, she'll come around. I don't know if he wants something temporary or he's looking for something long-term. But the decision-making is what scares me if her boyfriend and her best friend or whoever else is making her decisions for her, then she is nowhere near being a grownup. That's right. The measure of a grown-up is you have to be able to make your own decisions.

Craig (18:43):

Yeah. Try it. And let's just say, if she doesn't get to that point, that means if she gets back together with you. And so when the influences are to break up with you again, she'll do it exactly. Like you're taking a big risk with this woman. I get a vibe that he doesn't have a lot of experience with women. That I think somebody maybe that had more experience would have really been disgusted by this behavior and walked away

Margaret (19:10):

Either that, or he's so in love. Yeah, whichever it is. I personally don't see what's in it for him. Do you?

Craig (19:20):

Not at this point, I mean, to me, if you're looking for something meaningful, I mean, I think it's unlikely to find it with her and not, not with her acting like this. I mean, you know, she's close to 30 years old, you're 40 something, 40 mid forties. And I would think that you would be looking for something a little bit more meaningful than this. If you're just looking for casual, then I say, I think it'd be okay to date her. But I think if you get attached to her, you're going to get hurt. Right.

Margaret (19:52):

But she seems to want to get serious very quickly with people. Right?

Craig (19:56):

Well, she moved in with this new guy after a month.

Margaret (20:01):

Which says to me, she can't handle being alone, but I don't think she can handle being with anybody either. And she's creating this crazy triangle circus to try to manage day to day. Yep.

Craig (20:14):

And the other guy is hung up on the other girl and he's causing all kinds of drama coming back and forth and making a scene and getting upset.

Margaret (20:24):

How many people do you know who can do that on one hand?

Craig (20:30):

Yeah. Let me get both hands. But I mean, this is really crazy.

Craig (20:34):

This is yeah. And you know, we see here at the bottom of this email, he said, she said that night she got drunk. So that might be an, that there's some other issues going on with her, with alcohol that we don't know about. But you know, she's got a new boyfriend. She's flirting with the ex this guy here. I mean, lots of mixed messages, but then also saying, but we're not getting back together, but send me a sec story. But flirting with me, come see me at the office. Let's talk about sex.

Margaret (21:08):

Let's say, you know, if you're looking for a normal relationship with her, I think you're going to be dissapointed.

Craig (21:16):

And hurt. I think you're going to get hurt

Margaret (21:18):

Again

Craig (21:21):

Is my big concern here. It's like, if, if you think that you could date her and just have fun and go out and date, occasionally, you know, that's, that's a personal decision. You're an adult. You can make that decision for yourself. But I think if you're looking to get attached to somebody, she seems to have some serious attachment issues.

Margaret (21:38):

Oh, she certainly does. And just really life management issues. I mean, I imagine every day has some crazy incident.

Craig (21:47):

I would be shocked, shocked if this relationship lasted very long with this new guy. Even though they got serious real quick, and this is the kind of stuff we see, often somebody gets into a new relationship right away. They move in with this person. They're so great. And so wonderful. And they never really cared about you until it falls apart which it often does. And then they're like, what have I done? Right.

Margaret (22:13):

Yeah. This guy needs to think about protecting himself and his heart. That's already injured.

Craig (22:21):

So, you know, even when your ex leaves you to be with somebody else or meet somebody else right away and get serious with them, I've been doing this far too long to get stressed about that because I know that most of the time, it doesn't last very long. And then afterwards they think about the person that they were truly attached to and cared about. And in many cases, that was you, right? Yep. You see that too, right? Yes, indeed. So hopefully you take all of this in and think about it before you proceed. And you're careful with yourself and hopefully this helps you guys see that. I mean, I've seen, exes get engaged to somebody else right away, and then come back a few months later, begging and pleading for you back cause it doesn't work with that new engagement.

Margaret (23:11):

What do you think would happen if he went no contact?

Craig (23:14):

I think she'll reach out to him. In fact, I think she would probably reach out to him and, and give him more mixed messages.

Margaret (23:22):

Well, I think he would have to call her on the mixed messages

Craig (23:26):

In a situation like this. I would agree. I would say for, for this woman, I would say, why don't you get back with me when you're single that way she can't use you to triangulate,

Margaret (23:38):

Which is exactly what she's doing. Yeah. Which is exactly what she's doing.

Craig (23:42):

Yeah. So in a situation like this, I'm not going to let take advantage of you and hurt you anymore. So be careful with this one. And I'm sorry this happened to you.

Will Your Ex Trick You Into Breaking No Contact? YES!

Craig (00:00):

Today we're going to be talking about, will your ex trick you into breaking no contact? So this is something that everybody thinks about. I can imagine. Right? You know, if you've made the decision that you're not going to reach out to your ex, there's going to be little things that they do here and there that make you question. Is this them trying to get me to reach out? Is this them trying to get me to break the ice? Is this thing that they're sharing on social media about me and many times, it is. We're going to talk about some of those because it's good to know that yes, your ex is thinking about you and yes, your ex will do things on social media that could be about you and there'll be vague and indirect.

Craig (01:36):

Sometimes there'll be a little bit more direct. We're going to talk about some of those after this email coaching that I had here, but I want to talk about this. Okay? Because I tell you guys this all the time, exes often do regret their decision. At some point, they miss you. They think about things they have time to reflect. And what you have to understand from their perspective is that they are anxious about you at times. Now they're not going to show that, they hide that. Okay. because they had the, the power of making the decision to end it, they don't feel as much anxiety. They don't feel as powerless as you do, but they do get anxious about the situation.

Margaret (02:20):

They've lost you. No matter how you look at it, they can't forget about you in two minutes. Yeah.

Craig (02:24):

And, and what happens is, is that they're also anxious about reaching out to you, right? And that's why I figured out many years ago about the indirect direct approach. Right? A brilliant concept. Yes. It took me a while to figure it out, but I kept seeing patterns. Right? Where somebody, what is the indirect direct approach? Well, the indirect direct approach is that somebody reaches out to you directly, but they don't say something like they miss you. Okay. And you know, I know that some people don't believe that the indirect direct approach is a real thing. Oh, it is. It absolutely is. Yeah. See. And what do you think about that, Margaret? What would you say to somebody that doesn't think that's a real concept?

Margaret (03:15):

Well, I think you have to be aware that there's an unconscious, an unconscious mind. And if you're not aware of that, then I can see why you might not believe it. And I mean, I even think people could post stuff or, or do provocative stuff that they're only half aware they did, but part of them is hoping it will provoke you to contact them.

Craig (03:35):

Exactly. And we're going to talk about those

Margaret (03:37):

In a little bit indirect, direct I was talking with somebody today who told me clearly she did an indirect direct. So I mean, she knew exactly what she was doing, but I'm not sure that everybody does. Your favorite was always, I called to see how your cat is doing.

Craig (03:52):

The cat, I missed the cat and I didn't make up "I missed the cat out of nowhere." I missed the cat, I kept seeing I missed the cat, so that's one of the things that helped me put it together. I kept seeing it over and over again. It's not about the cat. It's not about the cat. It's about missing you. And they don't have the courage to tell you that they miss you. Right. Okay. So they, they dip the toe in the water. They dip the toe in, because they're not going to say, I miss you because then they're going to, you could lash out. You could ignore them. And then they're scared. So they dip the toe in, by directly contacting you. That's the direct part. Right. They reached out with a message they've reached out. They've called you, they've texted, you, they've done some kind of direct contact with you. That has to be a direct part. Right.

Margaret (04:47):

One of the ones that I've heard lately is I got some mail for you here.

Craig (04:51):

And, and here's the tricky thing about that with mail. It could be like, maybe they really do want to give me the mail. This seems like a logical thing. That's why the indirect direct is so confusing.

Margaret (05:02):

Yes. Because yes, it's kind of meant to be confusing.

Craig (05:05):

I remember a girl a couple of years ago, it was an avoidant. And she was one of the most I guess self-aware avoidants that I had ever dealt with. And that's why she stands out to me so much is that she told me she contacted the ex about the car key, needing the car key. And then she said, it wasn't about the car key. It was because I missed him. And so we talked about it and I was really thrilled with that call because it was great hearing an avoidant, being able to put the pieces of the puzzle together. Yeah. That was great. Yeah. So that's an indirect, direct is like, could this be about that thing or is it not? And it can be tricky. Right. But the point is, is that, you know, your ex often does do things to get you, to reach out to them because, and here's why, okay. Regardless of what your ex says to you, they still want you to want them, okay. They still want you as an option, even if they don't want to be with you in that moment in time, they liked the idea of you wanting them, because that feels good. It feels good. But biologically, because humans are hardwired to connect, to stay safe, that allows them to feel safer. Right, right. Because that's one more thing, biologically, one more person that could keep them safe. Does that make sense?

Margaret (06:40):

Absolutely. When a saber tooth tiger comes along, you gotta warn each other and take care of each other.

Craig (06:46):

Right. Like, you know, a turtle has a shell or a bird can fly away. Humans have their relationships. So they don't want to give up that relationship. Right. Even, you know, even if they don't want that person, they want the option of you being there. Right. So, because they want you there on some level, sometimes they're gonna struggle with how much they want you in their life. Right. So they might do these little breadcrumbs, these little things to keep you guessing. Keep you wondering breadcrumbs is the right term. Yeah. Because on an unconscious level, they're also scared. They're scared. They have that feeling of impending doom and dying too on some level.

Margaret (07:28):

It's a loss, even if they did the breaking up. Exactly.

Craig (07:31):

So they want to keep you around on some level, at least they want you to be wanting them, not necessarily around like contacting them, but they would like the idea of knowing that you still want to be with them. So you don't want them to think that you don't want them think that you're sitting around waiting for them to come back. Right. So I find that exes willl do little things to try and, you know, spark you from, you know, contacting them or reaching out or something. Okay. And I got an email coaching that I thought may have had a couple of those things in here. So that's why I wanted to share it. Now, this was the second email coaching and I gotta be honest. I was frustrated because my first email coaching, I had really laid out a nice plan. And he made a big blunder after the first plan. And it seemed like because he had stuck to the plan, he was getting a little traction, getting a couple of these things that I'm talking about. And then he makes a big mistake. And you're going to hear about that. Okay. So he said hi coach Craig. I appreciate our previous correspondence. I need to clarify and add context. Firstly, this is about, like I said, a follow-up to his first email coaching. She started to hang out with the new guy long after move. I knew he liked her. And I think she was very emotionally upset by the breakup. Every time we went off again, she reached out to me, not the other way around. I always recognized that it was important to leave her alone after the breakup. So good started to do that. I know she has a more anxious attachment style is an insecure. And I think he provided that romantic validation that she felt for these other reasons I could no longer provide. Okay. And there could be truth to that. She could have been insecure and just started dating somebody new to fill that void, right. Or to make her feel relaxed or calm down and, and you know, deal with the breakup and not necessarily a healthy way.

Margaret (09:41):

Right, right. But many people do it.

Craig (09:44):

I have been keeping up with the attachment videos and other topics. Individuation has been my primary goal. Good. I've moved into my own place. Something my ex had long wanted for us both. But I had shot down that for financial reasons. And it turned out because of my attachment style and he got a new job. I'll say that it's a new career. Good, good for him. So here's, here's where we get tricky. Right. She has almost reached out to me in the past month. She started typing on Snapchat to me at one point around when her new boyfriend posted their relationship status. Now he screenshot of this and there was an indeed a picture where it said her name and it said typing. And so he screenshot it to prove on Snapchat that she started to see what I mean. There's almost something and I don't use Snapchat, but I'm familiar with it, I created an account many years ago, but I'm familiar a little bit with it. So now in the notifications it would show him and she probably knows this, that, Oh, he'll see that I was typing to her. Yep. So that would be a little provocative. Right. I agree with that. Then he goes on to say, she even liked one of my Instagram posts the day before that. Okay. So that's something else she's going to his profiles. He's liking something. That's a good sign. And she views my stories, usually all platforms and within an hour of posting another good sign right now, I would not tell you to reach out for any of those things. Right. But that's showing, she's looking at his stuff. She's keeping up to what he's doing.

Margaret (11:36):

Okay. So she hasn't totally lost interest by any means. All right. So there's a little bit more.

Craig (11:40):

There was even a weird situation where she was online on the game. We used to play together and I went offline to avoid temptation of inviting her. I don't know if it was a PlayStation or a computer game, whatever he didn't say, but I guess she popped up online and then, Oh, and he also said, and she got off without playing a match. So maybe she saw him online and then disconnected from logging on whatever it was. Okay. There's a little bit more, she also has created private stories on Snapchat that she obviously invited me to. I haven't watched this one is smaller, but she has a habit of deleting photos of past relationships. She hasn't done that or even changed the captions that refer to me as the best guy ever. He now we starting to look a little bit too deep right now.

Craig (12:36):

We starting to get to that point where that it's going to make them crazy. Right. Looking at these kinds of details. Even after we broke up last time, she and I kept talking about how much we loved each other and hope to work it out one day, she was even saying things like how she knew is in bold caps, things were going to get better and work out and how I was the person that made her the happiest, all good signs. Right. Nice to hear. And here's the blunder and this is a pretty big one. Okay. Then I went and tagged myself and all our old vacation photos on Facebook and weirded her out. Oh boy. Okay. Margaret, what do you think about this? Wow.

Margaret (13:26):

I think it's a pretty angry thing to do. I think he's really angry at her, which is understandable, but there's no way that was going to get her to come back to him. What was she thinking do you think?

Craig (13:39):

I, to me, it feels like he was trying to like claim territory, like a dog peeing on a fire hydrant. Right? Like this is my territory.

Margaret (13:49):

You forgot that. I own you. So I'm going to tag, like that. Yeah.

Craig (13:54):

Okay. And it's like a public display of like, look, look at me like to the other guy, like if he looks at her Facebook now he's like looking at all these pictures with his name and it just, yeah.

Margaret (14:07):

I have better peakcocktail feathers then. Yeah.

Craig (14:12):

Oh my gosh. But I, I, the minute I told this one to the new coach, cause she was here, when we discussed this one, she was just like, Oh no, because you know, it just comes across as like..,

Margaret (14:27):

Angry to me because it's going to cause her a lot of hassle, a lot of problems. It's embarrassing to her because both their names are right there. If he thought in any way that was going to get her back he wasn't thinking logically.

Craig (14:45):

No. And that's one of the struggles of being in a breakup. We, we come up with these ideas and plans and they're often backfire. If you haven't heard me suggest in a video, I wouldn't do it. Yeah. Okay. Right. If you haven't heard Margaret suggest doing it, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it. Okay. And if you're on the fence, do a coaching with us.

Margaret (15:04):

It was a hostile act. That's what I'm trying to say.

Craig (15:11):

So obviously she freaked out and let's see what happens. We didn't talk until a week later when she told me that she loved me, but, and here we go was no longer in love with me. Okay. He came on way too strong.

Margaret (15:28):

Oh, he, he did something dreadful to push her away and then wondered why she went. Yeah.

Craig (15:35):

She cried. I didn't she'd posted or she noted in past breakups like this and she didn't get how I could be so common understanding while she sobbed. But it sounds like she cares about this guy.

Margaret (15:48):

It also sounds like they've broken up several times. Yeah. They're young, right? Yeah.

Craig (15:54):

They're in their early twenties. But I, I really liked the fact of the things that an ex would do. And I think she was doing those things until the tagging of the Facebook. Right, right. Yeah. All right. He said, I never could answer her, but my reaction has always been to remain calm and to talk her through it. I did again, a few days later she sent me the birthday text. I had attached to the email. It was just happy birthday with the little blowing of that, whatever that little kazoo thing is. And I responded politely and thanked her. Am I too hopeful or reading too much into things. Is a situation as hopeless as it feels sometimes. Okay. So we're going to talk about things you might want to look for, but I want to talk about, you know, yes. He is obviously reading into a lot of things here. Any clue he's obsessing over, it it's normal.

Margaret (16:51):

But then after he got a bunch of clues, he did this thing to push her away. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe he doesn't see it that way, but I'd love to know his reasoning if he thought that was going to get her back. Yep.

Craig (17:02):

Yeah. well at this point, you know, I think he had a few signs here that maybe she was thinking about him and who knows where it was going to go, but it was too early to say, and then he did this big thing, which felt like a little thing, but it was kind of like, I don't know what he was thinking. I don't think I've seen anybody do that one before. But I mean she needs time. I mean, I wouldn't say it's hopeless. I'd say that she needs time because it's, you know, it's not a horrible, horrible thing, but in the midst of a breakup, it's kinda like, it's tacky, it's uncomfortable. And you know, I think it's got, like, I told them in the first email coaching whatever's going on with this other guy, that's going to have to fall apart first.

Craig (17:45):

But you know, exes often do on social media. Now, they're not probably thinking along the lines of, I want him to break no contact. It's more like an unconscious thing of, I miss him. I'm not going to say it. I miss her. I want it. But then, you know, so they do these little tiny behaviors. Right. And these are some of the ones that I've seen on social media, particularly good. A song, maybe a band that used to like a song that used to like together, a concert that you had been together. That's, that's a big sign I think. Right. It's it meant for you probably, yeah. A meme, especially if it's like related to something that you like, if it's an interest that you have a movie, a show, something like that, or some maybe kind of related to an inside joke you've had. Yeah. That's likely directed your way. Some kind of memory, sometimes an ex will share one of their memories that you were in it or, and repost it or something like that. That's obviously more direct. Here's another big one. This is a big one that you see, actually, if they reach out to a friend or family, like one of your friends.

Margaret (19:02):

Absolutely. And that happens all the time. Yeah.

Craig (19:05):

And they'll say how's, so-and-so doing and part of that I think is did he say anything about me?

Margaret (19:12):

That's what all of it's about, right? Yeah. Did he say anything? Does he or she miss me? Yeah.

Craig (19:17):

So that's a good sign. This is one from the new coach Vicky. She suggested this one. I was hoping she would get to film in this one, but she didn't today. Unblocking you. You okay. If they unblocked you now, she said that would be the lowest of the low, but unblocking, you would be a good sign.

Margaret (19:36):

We had somebody say to me the other day, is that a good sign? Yes.

Craig (19:39):

And these are all kind of related, showing up at your work. Obviously they know you work there. That's a big thing.

Margaret (19:47):

That's also a big problem. Most people see that as very intrusive.

Craig (19:52):

Yeah. But if you're the one that was dumped, it's not, as you don't feel as intrusive. If you're there, if you're going to the person that dumped you work that's way worse. Right? Yeah. So if they show up at your work or places that you hang out or places that they know, you'll be, those are all good signs that maybe that you'll reach out or contact them. However, I do not recommend you do it. Nope. If they ended the relationship, I recommend that you let them reach out to you. Behavior escalates to serve a function. Right. I learned this many, many years ago as a behavior analyst. And so if it's escalating, as it was here, I think these little scenarios, right. It would have continued to escalate if he didn't, he had left things alone. Now who knows where it would have gone. It doesn't mean necessarily they would have gotten back together or anything. That's a huge leap in logic. I'm just saying, I think she would have reached out. Now she did reach out about the birthday, but now it's got to take some time and he's got to wait.

Margaret (21:04):

See, but just in terms of his life, I want to congratulate him. He got a new job and he moved out. So he's really gaining on the life tasks that he has right now. And that's great. That is great.

Craig (21:17):

Absolutely. and that's what we want you to do. That's our focus all the time is to help you grow from your breakup, grow emotionally, heal your attachment issues and become the best version of yourself. And that way either you retract your ex and blow them away, or you are doing much better in the dating world and you're much more attractive emotionally and as a partner, you're bringing a lot more to the table, but you know, again, I want to reiterate Margaret that a lot of times the ex who did the dumping is unconsciously thinking about you. Of course. And doesn't have the...

Margaret (22:04):

I don't know, the awareness, the wherewithal, the knowledge

Craig (22:07):

Exactly. To reach out or, or they're just not quite motivated enough to do it, but you need to let them, because they need to sit with that decision and really realize that they can lose you as well. Right. It's so important that people realize that they're going to lose you when they end a relationship that you're not going to continue to beg or, or, you know, be there just sitting around, putting your life on hold. Yep.

Margaret (22:35):

You told me to get lost. So I got lost.

Craig (22:39):

But that's why we're always focused on the personal growth because no matter what happens, you put yourself in a winning situation.

Margaret (22:46):

But it also sounds to me like this particular pair had both had a difficult time. It didn't seem like either household was friendly or supportive. And it sounds like they may have been clinging to each other. And they're probably really attached to each other, even though all of the tasks of the twenties have gotten to them now. And it's hard to do,

Craig (23:06):

But he's doing a great job. As you said,

Margaret (23:09):

Yes, he's doing what his life tasks are, which are to separate from your family to move up. And he got a new job.

Craig (23:15):

He's going to look a lot more attractive to her when she does come back around again. I, I really suspect, you know, if she has several months and it falls apart with the new guy that she could reach out again, you know, three or four months that that's the vibe I get from this situation. But you know, who knows what's gonna happen in the future.

Margaret (23:34):

Three or four months, it can be five or six months, but yeah, I think they were very important to each other.

Craig (23:41):

Yeah. But just know that, you know, your ex may try and provoke you with little things to reach out to them. But I think, and I stand by this, you should let them reach out first and say made the decision to end the relationship.

Margaret (23:58):

You're right. I do. Okay. Thank you.

Craig (24:01):

All right. So hopefully you found this video helpful.

Margaret (24:04):

Can I make a comment? I just want to make another comment on direct indirect. Now I refer to commercials sometimes because I know everybody who watches TV sees them, but there's a wonderful one. It's a progressive ad with flow and Bigfoot. Okay. And they're having a rather pleasant chat and big of course has been spotted a couple of times. And he says to flow, maybe part of me wanted to be seen. Yes. There is an unconscious and bigfoot knows it.

Craig (24:35):

And now you do too.

They Came Back and Ghosted Me

Craig (00:00):

In this video, we're going to be talking about, they came back to ghost me.

Margaret (00:48):

What are you thinking? Once it was bad enough?

Craig (00:51):

Why would you do that? People, this happens quite a bit. Margaret does you know, sometimes your ex will come back and they give you a little breadcrumb, something. Sometimes they come back for a little bit and it's hard to figure out their agenda. There could be a lot of different reasons why people do this. You know, it's hard to say because in these situations it's such a case by case basis. Yeah. Right. Because it is a very unusual thing to do to come back into somebody's life. After you've just left them and left them hurt. I would say you'd have to be pretty selfish to know that you've hurt somebody and then come back into their life again to disrupt it and then just vanish again

Margaret (01:36):

And do it a second time, because you were checking things out. Yeah. It would be a cruel thing to do. Yeah.

Craig (01:43):

Because if anybody reasonable is going to know that if you ended a relationship and you're the dumper, you've hurt this person and that, you know, you should be considerate of that and that you don't want to hurt them and make things worse for them. But then why come back and do it again?

Margaret (02:03):

To see if you can see if you can work it out the second time, I guess.

Craig (02:08):

Yeah. But sometimes I think it's based on that person's level of functioning in life that they're not quite there and they're not really thinking things through. Right, right. Because you'd have to not be thinking things through to realize, yeah, I'm going to go back and hurt this person again and then vanish. Right. It's probably not their initial thought. So I got an interesting email that I did an email coaching with that I thought you guys would enjoy. This is from a woman in her mid thirties that was dating a woman in her late twenties. Right. So they were together for a year and a half and, they got engaged after dating for three months. So that's already a major red flags.

Margaret (02:55):

Just both nervous. Yes. It's too fast.

Craig (02:57):

Three months. You're going commit to a lifetime together with somebody that you've only known for 90 days. I mean, right.

Margaret (03:06):

They must have been in that euphoric state. Yeah.

Craig (03:10):

So she goes on to say, we are now broken up and not living together. One of our major problems was that I mistreated her after we got engaged. So that's another red flag to think about off the bat. I mean, cause think about it. They got engaged at three months. So you were already mistreating her at three months?

Margaret (03:34):

So let's say once you felt secure in the relationship, you felt you could mistreat her.

Craig (03:39):

That's very interesting to think about. Right.

Margaret (03:41):

Right. They're engaged so she's not going to leave me now. Yeah.

Craig (03:44):

How do you treat somebody if you think they won't leave? Right. It's a good point. Yeah. How do you treat somebody if you think they won't leave you? The second problem was that she stopped giving me her attention and love. I broke up with her five months ago due to her not giving me attention or love.

Margaret (04:07):

Okay. He's the same person who mistreated her?

Craig (04:09):

No, she mistreated them. And then she said they didn't give her attention in love maybe. Cause you had been mistreating them. Yeah. It could be know something. You got to think about. My question is my ex reached out to me last Tuesday, just two days before my birthday, when she called, I picked up the phone super happy to hear from her. So it sounds like they hadn't been talking for months. I'm guessing based on that timeline about five months. Right? Cause he said they broke up with her five months ago. And then she came back around the birthday. So it seems to me about five months. When she called, I picked up the phone super happy to hear from her. She asked how I was and if I missed her, she also asked if I was seeing someone and wanted to talk about getting back together. That's awful quick.

Margaret (05:05):

Well, these folks don't mess around with time. They do not. I'm reaching out for the first time in months and I want a commitment or not.

Craig (05:12):

Yeah. I mean, it's just, wow. It, they're rushing into things incredibly quickly again. Right. Especially when it didn't work the first time. And, and already the demands, like, are you single? Are you seeing anybody? Let's get back together.

Margaret (05:30):

Right. All in one sentence. Yeah.

Craig (05:32):

She said she was not seeing anyone and missed me now. I don't see exes typically come on this strong. Do you? More often that it's like an indirect, direct approach. This was pretty direct. And so that's telling of this relationship though, right? We talk all day and night, not healthy either. And she seems to miss me and tell me, loves me on Wednesday. She asked me what I was doing for my birthday. Remember she reached out two days before the birthday, what I was doing for my birthday and wanted me to go away for that weekend. How many months? Five. Yeah, they hadn't seen each other. It sounded like in about five months. I miss you. You're single. Let's go away for the weekend. They talked all day at night. A lot. You could see this going on quick. I booked the getaway and on my birthday she said she had a headache and was not able to see me. So she comes on awful quick. And now all of a sudden she's got a headache and she can't see you for this weekend getaway?

Margaret (06:39):

Or wait a minute, let me be sure. I got it right in my head. The writer is the person who did the misusing or the other person?

Craig (06:46):

The writer said she mistreated her after they had gotten engaged. All right. Okay.

Margaret (06:53):

But she's not the one who's rushing into the contact. No,

Craig (06:56):

This is the ex that came back after five months. It seems to her, but she had been the one that ended the relationship five months ago. Okay. But so then they're supposed to go away for this weekend getaway and this girl who comes back out of nowhere, says I have a headache. You have a headache? You've been telling me you want to get back together. All right. So let's see what happens when I got home, I walked in to a big dozen roses and she popped out with wine saying surprise. And she took me to dinner and started saying her head was hurting even more.

Margaret (07:37):

So she canceled the getaway.

Craig (07:39):

Like she came home from the getaway. Right. Cause she said, when I got home, she came home from the getaway and she said, she pops in she's at her house saying surprised. And that now her head's hurting again. But you got your roses. Yeah. And wine. Right. Okay. I walked her to her car and everything was fine. We texted all the way until she got home. She asked if she can spend the night, the next day. And I said, yes, the next day I did not hear from her. I called her at 1:00 PM. And she said she was waking up and not feeling well and going to the doctors. Okay. So you say like, what's going on here? You sick. Something's wrong. She then stopped texting me. And I continued to text her. She said the doctor told her she had the flu and for her to cancel the trip this weekend.

Craig (08:43):

So this was before the weekend? Yup. Okay. I agreed and texted her to get home and get some rest. I texted her if I can order her some soup. And she said she didn't like any soup, maybe later. If you don't like any soup, why would you want it later? Right? Our next text was at 3:00 PM on Friday when I got home Friday night, I haven't heard from her. So I called her and no answer. I texted her and no reply. I waited until the next day. And still haven't heard from her. I called her and it rang once and got to her voicemail. I discovered she blocked me because even my text messages were not going through. Wow. A lot of bizarre behavior here. Right. I wrote her an angry email saying, why did she come back into my life saying she loves me and wants to work it out. And then ghost me. I told her don't ever call me again. I was done. So she had lost emotional self control there .sounds like she's got a lot of anxiety yourself. And she sent me an email the next day saying okay, I'm thinking the same thing. Aren't you Margaret?

Margaret (10:18):

I'm real confused.

Craig (10:21):

My family keeps telling me, it sounds like I was a rebound. And maybe she got back with her partner. Craig, do you think she will ever come back or do you think maybe I was a rebound and lost her for good? Well, this is a very bizarre situation. This woman comes back out of nowhere, starts messaging her a couple of days. Comes on strong shows up at her house with roses and flowers. Then all of a sudden mysteriously she's sick the next day at the doctor, but she can't reply to messages and disappears and can't go away for the weekend.

Margaret (10:59):

And her family must be saying even more than the other woman's family. Okay.

Craig (11:04):

Very bizarre. And then she finds out she's blocked. So you know, it makes me think that she might be onto something like this other girl, the girl that came back may have been dating somebody else. It was, they got into a fight. They were having some kind of issues and she, all of a sudden comes back strong onto her again.

Margaret (11:26):

When she panics about being alone, yep. Okay.

Craig (11:30):

Then comes back for a couple days, but because maybe that fight blew over with the other person now, she's like, well, I'm going to block her and disappears on her.

Margaret (11:43):

I'm getting my soup elsewhere. Yeah.

Craig (11:47):

That's the thing that makes the most sense.

Margaret (11:50):

It's really wild. I mean sort of like nobody has appropriate boundaries here. Okay. I mean, it's all or nothing. Either we're engaged or we're broken up either we're going away from the weekend or we're broken up. Yup. It's extremes. There's no middle.

Craig (12:09):

Yeah. And I will say that the girl that came back was very bizarre. We don't see behavior like this typically. And that's why I thought this is an interesting one to talk about because you know, the way she comes back so strong and then disappears so quickly.

Margaret (12:30):

Okay. I like your theory though, that that works, that she was really seeing somebody else and cannot handle being alone for 10 minutes.

Craig (12:39):

Yeah. That's what makes the most sense to me. The only other thing that I could think of that makes sense is that she hadn't been blocked. Maybe her phone was off or maybe she was in a place where she had no service and the other girl the one that was reaching out thought she was blocked. And so when she got that message, the next day, she was confused, like okay, like, why are you saying that I did this or what? I don't understand what, why you sent me this email. Go ahead. Because her behavior saying I'm okay. Is very bizarre too.

Margaret (13:18):

Right? Yup. Totally bizarre. And there's nothing healthy that you hear about this relationship? Nope. There's only three months till we're engaged then there's mistreatment. And how long were they together?

Craig (13:34):

I want to say they were together for, was it five months? Did they say, I think that's what you said. I can't remember. I know they got engaged. They were engaged. They were together for a year and a half.

Margaret (13:48):

That's a long time. So life must have become somewhat normal in between you would think. But we don't hear the precipitant for the actual breakup, do we?

Craig (13:57):

Oh, she said that she broke up with her because that girl wasn't being loving and affectionate towards her. Okay. So but I find a lot of strange behavior here. She comes back around the birthday. She comes on strong and then all of a sudden she's sick and she can't reply back to text messages. Yeah. Very bizarre. Yeah. I'll tell ya. This is maybe a little bit of a reach here, but the other thing that I wonder is, is this woman dissociating?

Margaret (14:29):

Well, I wondered that too that she changes her mind in a way that isn't even halfway logical. I was going to say one of them, or both of them sound borderline, and that there's all this intensity and I love you, but either I have to be with you and engaged, or I can't be with you at all. In other words, this is all or quality to it.

Craig (14:53):

There's enough unusual behavior to the situation that I'm thinking. There might be some serious issues going on here. I would agree with one or both of them. Did you get that vibe too?

Margaret (15:04):

Yeah, absolutely. So I don't think they should consider being together until everybody's had some help. What do you think?

Craig (15:13):

I think so. The vibe that I get from both of them is that there's some trauma, absolutely. From both from both and, you know, the way they rushed into this relationship, it just gives a very volatile, toxic sense. I mean, she admitted that she had mistreated her

Margaret (15:36):

And the one who was mistreated was the one that was complaining that she wasn't loved. Yes, exactly. So that says to me that somewhere in her experience, you can be loved by people whom mistreat you, which would certainly speak to trauma. Yep. And I would guess they have similar histories.

Craig (15:57):

But for somebody to come back into your life and then goes to you again, I don't see it certainly play out like this usually.

Margaret (16:06):

No, this is very unusual for us.

Craig (16:09):

If you've had something like that, shar it in the comments, it'd be interesting for us to see that. I think exes come back a lot of times and they're kind of wishy-washy and they breadcrumb you. But do you see exes, if you've had this happen to you, let us know where somebody comes back, this strong immediately in those first conversations, are you single? I want to work it out. The intensity.

Margaret (16:34):

24 hours. Yeah. The intensity is incredible. I, if we call it ambivalence, it would be absolutely ambivalence to the max. I feel desperate for you one minute and I'm blocking you the next. Yep.

Craig (16:49):

But you know, ghosting is a very painful thing to do to somebody. And, you know, like I said, at the onset of the video, it's kind of reflective of somebody's mental state that they would do that because it's very immature and selfish.

Margaret (17:06):

I mean, I don't know that anybody here is logical coherent, do you?

Craig (17:10):

It doesn't seem like it to me. I feel like there's massive trauma for both of these people.

Margaret (17:16):

So, and just because this is so charged and so intense, you worry about violence. I would. Yeah.

Craig (17:25):

Yeah. Well, there's no evidence to it, but I certainly would be suspect because she did admit mistreating, but didn't go into any other detail.

Margaret (17:35):

We don't know if that's verbal or shoving or yeah. Yeah. Well, we had a fist fight or what, but it sounds extremely volatile. Like Craig said intense, intense, intense, but not in a healthy way. Yeah.

Craig (17:46):

Yeah. So if you have similar, that happened to you, it'd be interesting. Share it in the comments or talk about if you were ghosted in your situation. So we could take a look at that because,

Margaret (17:58):

Or any insight about this that you'd like to share with us.

Craig (18:01):

Yeah. If you have a different thought about what happened in this situation, but I found this one particularly interesting because of the way that it all came back together so quickly and kind of vanished and almost as quickly as it came.

Margaret (18:18):

Yeah. And the woman has a final question for you, which was

Craig (18:22):

Do you think she will come back or she was a rebound again,

Margaret (18:28):

And those are not the only two options. Yeah.

Craig (18:34):

Do I think this woman will come back? Well, that's hard to say? You think she'll come back?

Margaret (18:40):

I do, Yeah. Cause craziness doesn't seem to put either of them off

Craig (18:46):

For me, the most likely scenario is that she was with somebody else and that she came back when they had an argument or it looked like it was falling apart. So I would expect to hear from her again, if that happened again. Absolutely. That's what I would think.

Margaret (19:05):

It happened again and it will, because you know, it's going to be just as crazy this time. Right. The other person, if there is one

Craig (19:13):

Good point. Yeah. That's a good point. But you know, whether or not you can have a healthy relationship with her is another thing. And I suggest you really work through your issues and get to a good place emotionally, because I think that this is just going to be another toxic charged relationship.

Margaret (19:31):

But you know, you can't do anything about what she does work on yourself. Be good to yourself. Understand your issues.

Craig (19:40):

Okay. So hopefully you found this one, helpful, share your stories with ghosting below. We'd like to see it and we could do future videos on it. If you like, let us know.

If I Leave My Ex Alone, Will They Miss Me?

Craig  (00:00):

Today we're going to be talking about if I leave my ex alone, will they miss me? So Margaret, this is a topic that comes up for me, probably on a daily basis or almost a daily basis. Several times a week, at least. But I understand why it's such a big topic. And so we're going to talk about this today because it's so terrifying, so terrifying to go through a breakup and just feel like your ex isn't going to miss you. And we're going to talk about why and what your ex is going through. And some of the things they might be thinking of feeling as well, as long as, and yourself, because I found it to be so helpful to understand what's going on within ourself during a breakup. Absolutely. Right. Uso, you know, people say to me all the time, do you think they're gonna think about me? Do you think they're going to miss me? And you know, obviously we're dealing with, you know, emotions and we're dealing with a connection we're dealing with love, we're dealing with attachment, you know, and I don't think there's anything more powerful than attachment. And it's hard wired into us. That's the way we are men as human beings is to form a bond, even with our mother pre-birth but it really gets to get to that what three month mark where we really start to bond and have a powerful attachment with them. And that isn't something that you have to talk about or think about it's just, just happens. It's natural. It's normal. Right. So,uI understand that. It's so scary to think about your ex, not thinking about you and letting them go and not reaching out to them that we constantly feel like we have to do something to repair that connection.

Margaret (02:50):

Okay. And not only that, we get hormones that tell us stuff that's right. Mother nature always wants us to propagate. And when A relationship ends, mother nature says, Oh, no kids from these two and sends you more hormones to go get them back.

Craig  (03:08):

So, you know, obviously one of the things that is incredibly challenging is the obsessive thoughts, right? We're dealing with the obsessive thoughts, almost nonstop, and it feels like this almost like you're trapped in this endless cycle of obsessive thoughts, and it's just, you just can't turn them off. And there's a biological reason behind that. And that is if you're a child, like look at, if you're a child and you're disconnected from your parents, you wander off too far, your brain has you go back to them cause you've, you could die. You could literally die. Right? So that's, what's going on there. It's a very similar thing that you experienced as a child wander too far away from your parents. You're gonna die. And so that's why you're going through those obsessive thoughts. But, and I'm going to talk about how this affects your ex as well in a minute. But I want you to understand, because, you know, I remember when I first started researching breakups years ago, I stumbled across a video that talked about death and how we feel like we're dying. And that's why we have these obsessive thoughts. And then it started to really hit me, like, no wonder why this is so painful. I feel like I'm dying because your brain is telling you don't disconnect from that person because you could die.

Margaret (04:35):

And let's go back to our old friend that saber tooth tiger. Okay. And remember that in our evolutionary old days if we got separated from mom, we did probably become somebody's lunch, you know? So it's not crazy. It's it's in a way adaptive.

Craig  (04:53):

Exactly. Yeah. It's, it's, it's very intertwined with our survival. And so that's why so many of you guys are driving past your ex's house. You are calling their job, you're driving past their job. You're calling their, their friends, their family, you're stalking their social media. You need to be honest with yourself on that. You're doing it because so many guys are not going to admit it, but yeah, you really are doing or have done it. And it's because you're desperately feeling like if you don't do it, you're going to die without them.

Margaret (05:28):

But there's a cognitive piece to it too. This is somebody you've been with, you know, for some period of time, enough to classify it as a breakup and obviously that person has said loving things to you and you have said loving things to them. And then all of a sudden they walk away from you and it makes no logical sense. Right? Emotions don't always make logical sense, but there is some logical sense here. How could the person, you know, two months ago told me I was the best thing in the entire universe walk away from me even two days ago. Even two days ago. Yeah.

Craig  (06:05):

Yeah. And I have an email coaching that we'll get to in another video, if we have some time today about something that happened to somebody just like that. But you know, Margaret we're in this obsessive thinking of, are they going to come back? Are they going to miss me? Are they going to think about me, Margaret? What do you think?

Margaret (06:25):

Well, I think they are going to miss you. And they are going to think about you. You can't be with someone on an intimate level and not have some level of attachment. Yes. Okay. So yes, they are going to think about you. Yes. In the beginning, they're going to feel relieved because they've finally done the breakup, but they're going to miss you. They're going to think about you. And they're going to wonder if they made the right decision. That's true.

Craig  (06:48):

Right. But it takes time. Okay. We know that you're experiencing so much physical pain that it's unbearable. I I've been there. Yeah. That's what propelled me to want to learn this stuff. So well is what I went through with my own breakups in the past. And you know, that's why I can relate with you guys because I know how horrible it is and Margaret was there for me during that time. And you know, it's so scary to think, is this person thinking about me? If I leave them alone, if I stop reaching out, if I go, no contact, is that it? Are we done? Are they just going to be out of sight, out of mind?

Margaret (07:25):

Right back in the old days, we had loved letters to save, but now it all takes, takes place electronically. And you can't even, they used to joke about people having an old trunk full of love letters. You know, we don't even have those anymore. So you can't hold on to them.

Craig  (07:40):

Yeah. Unless you have like text messages now, or,

Margaret (07:43):

And the other thing you might have is pictures. And I really think that when you're dealing with any loss, it's useful to look at a picture of that person. Now it might sound like it's going to pour salt in the wound, but I guarantee no, you know, you look at the person's picture and you say, I'm sad. I'm sad about all of this. And that's a very healthy way to go. Yeah. You know?

Craig  (08:05):

Yeah. It's, it's, it is because you have to kind of own it. And you know, that brings up for me. I'm thinking, calling up the object that so many of the people that we're dealing with have had attachment issues and they can't picture somebody, you know, that, you know what I mean?

Margaret (08:25):

And just let me repeat that theory in a couple of sentences, talking about if things work correctly and we are mother is available and we attach and all those wonderful things happen. Eventually we begin to develop a picture of mom that we can hold in our memory, in our head, when mom is not there.

Craig  (08:46):

Up their voice, calling up them talking to us.

Margaret (08:50):

And so forth. And if you can call it, the object, life is so much easier. You can call it up to soothe yourself, or you can call it up if you have to grieve. Yeah. Okay. And I remember essentially being taught by a client when I suggested that he needed to grieve some of the people in his family, he said, I'll have to bring in the family album only then did it dawn on me, that it was easier for him to do it when he could see the pictures, cause he couldn't really call up the object. You know? So it was a wonderful thing. I, I did family albums ever after. No, I thank him if he's out there somewhere.

Craig  (09:27):

Yeah. So what happens is, you know, that inability or that struggle to call somebody up makes us feel like they're going to forget us because in a way we're forgetting them, we're forgetting the sound of their voice. We're forgetting how they talked to us what they were saying to us, what they told us. And so we are afraid that they're doing the same thing that we're struggling with. Absolutely. Right. It's almost like projected.

Margaret (09:51):

Yeah. And is it easier to put somebody out of your mind? Yeah. You can try good luck because those obsessive thoughts will come right back. You miss me. I know you do. I know you miss me. What are the other things I hear often is, does this mean they never loved me? No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't at all. And I think that most people break up for whatever reasons they break up. But that at one time when you were together, they said they loved you and they meant it. Oh, absolutely. Okay. People often think there are reasons they have to break up. Sometimes they don't even want to.

Craig  (10:27):

Yup. But you know what happens next is that, you know, your ex has made a decision to end the relationship to move forward. And at that point they really are fairly confident with their decision. They're not always a hundred percent and every situation is very different. Let me put it out there. There are situations that are so different throughout my day that, you know, we're trying to talk in general terms to get you to understand that, yes, in most of the cases they are going to think about you and miss you right off the bat. But there will be situations that your ex is so frustrated or maybe fed up with you or the situation that they're at that point. They're like, I don't want to deal with it. I don't want to think about it, but they can't turn it off forever.

Margaret (11:13):

No, they can't. They can delay it, but they can't turn it off forever. And how many times do we hear tha they sign up on six dating sites, you know, two days later to distract.

Craig  (11:24):

That's exactly it. And you know, what we start doing at that point is we're looking at our behavior and we're starting to beat ourselves up of, Oh my gosh, I couldn't leave them alone. I was, I was pushing, I was shoving them to, to give, to talk to me, to work and out. And we start to feel really bad about that because we realized that we've been demanding and then our ex just gets cold ice cold. Yes. And so when they're at this point, they're not going to act like they're ever going to miss you. They're not going to budge because they don't want you to continue harassing them. So they got to put that wall up. Right. So that's why I'm trying to get you to see is that the process of leading up to this point is they're not going to act like they're missing you or thinking about you because if they do, you're just gonna pursue them like a like an awful salesman. Like you're just interacting like a persistent salesman that won't let the person think about things. Right? So at this point, you, you know, you gotta go no contact, you know, and some of you get there sooner than others. I get that. And you know, when you go no contact, it's actually a really powerful thing to do. Yes, it is. Because your ex, at that point, it's just like, Ugh, they're constantly badgering me reaching out. And so there's no fear there, there, there's no sense of like, am I making a mistake? Am I going to miss this person? Cause they're not missing you at that point. No, at the moment. They're really, and they're like, finally,

Margaret (13:12):

They're leaving me alone. Right. Finally, I have space. We all need space. That's what we hear a great deal. I need space. That's right. Finally, I have my space while you think all you want and your space. Yeah.

Craig  (13:21):

Yeah. But as you, once you stop forward momentum, that is a complete change of dynamics. You're no longer trying to be a used Carlson car salesman. You're no longer trying to force them into something they're not wanting to do. Now. They actually have to sit with a decision of, Hmm, am I really going to want to live without this person? Right. At first they think you're still going to reach out maybe in a couple of days or a week. But as time goes on, they don't stop thinking about you the way they think about you. And the situation changes. They go from feeling angry and frustrated and walls up and defensive to, Hmm. Maybe I am making a mistake. Maybe I was overreacting. Maybe the things that were bothering me, then weren't so bad, but it takes time to get there.

Margaret (14:25):

And that's the thing I had somebody say to me today, it's been four weeks. I mean, we're talking, you know, several months.

Craig  (14:35):

Exactly. That's typical, depending upon the situation, why they wanted to end things. But you know, once you have stopped the forward momentum, that creates space. And the more time that goes, the more space that is created, the more they are going to wonder or start to believe. Well, I actually am never going to hear from this person again. And in that space, that's when they start to feel like they've been dumped in a sense right now, sometimes you'll have people that will do breadcrumbs. And every once in a while, they'll reach out and you know, we don't want you to chase them. No, we don't want you to be eager with these people. But you know, like I said, this is so general, oftentimes we're in situations where we don't hear from our ex for months at a time, and we don't want you to ignore them. If your ex is breadcrumbing you and reaching out to you occasionally saying, you know, I mean, sometimes you'll have an avoidant that's reaching out. You know, every couple of days at that point, you don't want to, you know, act like you're available or too interested in them. You know, we want you to be a challenge. Right, right. We don't want anybody to think that you're easily available, but we don't want you to ignore them either. Right. So if you are in a breadcrumbing situation, you're going to do it differently obviously than a situation where you haven't heard from your ex.

Margaret (16:12):

Or the three o'clock in the morning or the drunk call. Don't put up with that.

Craig  (16:17):

Exactly. But I don't want people to get confused because there's a big difference with a breakup. When somebody hasn't reached out to you in four months and ignoring them versus you, haven't heard from your ex in two days and they're reaching out every three days and they're bread crumbing. You, that's a very different kind of breakup. Okay. But more often than that, not the breakup is you haven't heard from your ex for three, four months.

Margaret (16:47):

And the normal response, the normal human response to loss is grief. Okay. And you can put grief off, but you cannot make it go away. And we find out that people don't last a year without getting into that grief stage. Okay. So grief is going to come upon them and they go into, remember you and they're going to be sad. They can delay it for a while. And then eventually it's going to catch up with

Craig  (17:16):

That's a good point. Yeah. it does catch up with them. And if they try going from relationship to relationship, it's just going to be unhealthy. And the losses are just going to amount and they're just going to continue the cycle of unhealthy relationships

Margaret (17:33):

And trying not to grieve.

Craig  (17:34):

Yeah. which is why we are always pushing and advocating for mental health and growing and working through your issues. It's so critical to turning it around once your ex does reach out again. But you know, there are so many different types of situations. That's why I say in the video, every relationship is different. Every breakup is different because throughout all day long, there are very different scenarios that play out on why people break up how they broke up, what happened, why it happened, right? Attachment styles, mental health issues, all of those things,

Margaret (18:16):

The whole package, we're all a whole package, but I've, I've often heard. I've watched him put things out of his head. He can put things out of his head and never think about them again. No, he can't. He lives on the planet with our shared humanity. You know, eventually it's going to catch up with him. He does have feelings or you wouldn't have been with him. Yes.

Craig  (18:33):

So in time your ex does miss you. And they think about those good things. They think about those good times you've had together. They think about the pros of the relationship. They think about the cons to the relationship. And your goal is to work on those things that when they come back, you're not doing those mistakes or you're trying to minimize those mistakes. So they are more willing to try and give it another go. Right? That's the things that they were so frustrated with. Won't be there as intense as they were before. If you can try to minimize those problems, right. Then things will be easier for them. They'll be happier. And, but it takes real work to get to that place. Right. But, you know, leaving them alone is absolutely critical to getting them to miss you.

Margaret (19:32):

Otherwise, it's like a fix for an addict. Okay. If they can call you, get a quick response or if you call them, then they start grieving. You don't want to interrupt the process.

Craig  (19:43):

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You want them to miss you, you want them to think about you. They, you want them to remember all those good times and people will talk about the fading effect bias. Have you heard about that?

Margaret (19:56):

No. What is the fading effects? I might have it, is it like COVID,

Craig  (20:01):

It might be you know, I haven't found a lot of good research on it. That's why we haven't talked about it too much in videos where supposedly in time, you start to forget about the bad things and remember the good, but the research I've seen isn't, you know, that significant yeah.

Margaret (20:21):

That happens in domestic violence cases. Oftentimes I'd have to research that. Which I will do if it's, if it's a topic of interest. Yeah.

Craig  (20:30):

Yeah. But somebody had commented on the video today about the fading affect bias. So I thought I'd bring it up real quick.

Margaret (20:37):

You remember the good times instead of the bad ones? Yeah. That probably is somewhat true. Yeah.

Craig  (20:42):

There's, I'm sure there's some truth to it, but the research is more about from what I was about specific amount of days and stuff like that. But what I had seen when I had researched it years ago, I wasn't thoroughly impressed. So maybe that's something you could look into in your research and your studies. But I, I want everybody to know. It's so important that even though your ex is just steadfast in their decision of, I'm never going to give you another chance. I'm never going to work it out with you. That changes over time. Okay.

Margaret (21:21):

Yeah. They will tell me the last hurtful thing that the ex says yes. At which, in which case I immediately quote you and say, Craig reminds us all that feelings change

Craig  (21:33):

Feelings change. But it takes time for those feelings to change and you've gotta be willing and you gotta be strong to leave them alone to allow that for them to actually miss you think about it. If you miss somebody time has had to occur and space has had to occur. You don't miss somebody when they're in front of you. Right. I don't miss Margaret when she's here right next to me.

Margaret (22:02):

But you miss me all week when I'm not exactly.

Craig  (22:05):

If we're not seeing each other or filming videos or whatnot. Right. Or my friends that I don't get to see you, you miss them when you have space and time away. And so yes, they will miss you. Even though they looked upset and angry and hurt and they had their wall up and they looked like they were never going to change their mind. That can change over time. Right. And we, we know that you guys need to hear this all the time because it's so scary what you're going through. And that's why we're always bringing it up and sharing different experiences that we've had. Uwhen we get email success stories, which we get all the time and,uwe can't share them all quite honestly. But if you give your time to your ex, if you give them space, they will miss you. They will think about you. They can't shut off that part of their brain

Margaret (23:02):

For any length of time. They can, they can do it briefly, but it, yeah, it will eventually come back and say, hi, I'm still here. Like all unresolved issues do. Yeah. Okay.

Craig  (23:12):

And when people tell you, they love you, you know, I think on some level they love you forever.

Margaret (23:18):

Oh yeah. I think so too. Yeah. I think that's true. And remember, what's going to happen to the minute you are ready to move on. Yeah,

Craig  (23:27):

Exactly. Right. Yeah. We see that all the time. In fact, I had a comment today. I think it was on my Instagram from somebody who said, the minute I was ready to move on, they came back. They sensed the disturbance in the force.

Margaret (23:38):

Right. And don't forget that we think they're not in touch. They've gone. They've absolutely blocked us out. And then as soon as we're ready to move on, they reach out. Yeah. Which says that the process has gone on for those several months. And remember we live in a world of instant and we've lost our sense of process. Oftentimes we fall in love too fast. And Craig and I are always saying, slow down, don't move too fast. And, you know, we fall into love too fast. And sometimes we fall out of love real slowly, you know, slow is better on both ends.

Craig  (24:13):

Yeah. So yes, if you leave your ex alone and give them time, they will miss you. They will start to remember the good times, the experiences you shared, those moments you had, the connection you had, and you just have to let them do that on their terms, which is so difficult. We know, but they're not going to forget you in that time. They're just not right. Right. Okay. Hopefully you found this helpful.